That it?

100 Worgen Warrior
14515
Dear Blizzard,

I'm excited for The Firelands. I just hope we won't see another scenario ala Icecream Citadel, where there is very little content for an incredibly long period of time (I didn't like falling asleep while doing heroic-mode bosses).

I think seven bosses, as long as they're done right, is a nice medium. I've come to enjoy a lot of the cataclysm encounters, especially from a ten-man perspective (they may be a little too unforgiving in certain circumstances, but we're able to work around it), so if Blizzard continues this model consider me a happy customer.

Ulduar was a fantastic instance, and the care that was put in to that place definitely shows. It was the crown jewel of Wrath raiding.

I do have a question. I haven't read too deep in to this thread (so many posts, so little time), so if this question has been addressed my apologies - but it begs to be asked.

Will you plan to create little 'side-raids', similar to how Throne of the Four Winds works, as content updates, or are you going to stick with one 'major raid instance' and a loot pinata in Baradin Hold?

I really enjoy going in to Throne of the Four Winds, not having to deal with trash, and just enjoying the bosses themselves. Throne of the Four Winds is an excellent 'side-raid'.

I guess that brings up the arguement whether creating a side-raid that offers additional, 'optional' gear choices would make up for content creation time, but I am just curious...

My second question, will there be another raid after The Firelands before we see the final instance with Deathwing? We've already conquered Cho'gall, Nefarian (well I haven't, but soon(tm)), and soon Ragnaros. It seems that after Ragnaros, we would have taken out his leading commanders. I'm hoping there will be a little surprise for us before the final raid instance.
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100 Troll Priest
14955
04/28/2011 04:31 PMPosted by Bombmagic


Please point me in the direction of the current culture of raiders that have been clamoring for anywhere near this steep of a drop in weekly 'stuff do to'. Note that I said raider culture, not overall WoW culture, dailies are nearly irrelevant to most of us. The extreme hardcore raid 5 nights a week, plus, yes. But the average is 3 nights, and I have seen extremely little complaint about that. That is an optimal amount of time to spend with the game and guild to still feel involved, and yet be able to maintain a normal life, in -many- people's opinions.

WoW is a large game that can cater to -many- different demographics and cultures of players. However, if you either misunderstand how the raider demographic wishes to play the game to this degree, or if you simply wish to let the casual content go so far as to nearly completely decimate the standard way that most raiders enjoy the game and spending time with their guild, then, well, it's been good knowing you, we don't exactly want to leave, but you apparently don't want us around any more.

Again, WoW is a large game that can support many, if not all, playstyles. Design more casual content if they need it, but don't destroy the content for other demographics in the process.


How is giving people more free time a bad thing? It gives you more time to do other things! WoW has a bad reputation for being "addictive" and consuming people's lives and time. And in order to not make those reputations a reality they're going to have to step away from the "You must be on for as long as you can be on every single day!" mentality.


What the heck are you people doing over there? You're all over the place when it comes to how fast the legendary should be completed, completely going back and forth on "If 25 man can complete if faster", and now this garbage? Do you guys really not care about WoW anymore? Cause that's honestly my impression, for the first time since I've been playing since Vanilla.

Oh well, was a heck of a ride I guess, but it's painfully obvious that when a company that's supposed to be selling a product that keeps us playing because, ya know, we PAY TO PLAY IT, tells us "Well, we don't want people to feel like they should log on every single night," you're done.


You as well need to step back and think for a second if you really think you need to be playing WoW everyday for as long as you can. Whats wrong with having like 3 days each week of a solid and fun raiding experience a week and then having the rest of it to yourself?




Because it should be up to me if I want to join a guild of like minded people that want to play as many days a week as possible, on as hard content as possible. What was the difference between back then and having this opinion and now? Now the choice is being removed from us, and Blizzard themselves is saying what's best for us playstyle wise? Are you kidding me?


You want to get down to the nuts and bolts of what's wrong right now? Starting in Wrath, LESS work has been done on this game every expansion. It's obvious that most of the end of wrath's dev cycle was spent redoing all of Azeroth for Cata, hence the aforementioned abysmal tier 9. This is fine. What's the excuse now?



Remember in TBC when they added new factions to grind each patch, as well as a reason to do heroics, as well as new meaningful raid content every tier? Yeah, they STILL haven't repeated that yet. The company should've grown, not shrunk over all this time. Why does it have to boil down to "We can give you more stuff to do in a non-raid, but you'll get less raid content because of it'?


Again, I'm not meaning to be insulting, but how much more obvious can this idea be?
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
14405
04/28/2011 04:36 PMPosted by Bombmagic


Please tell me I'm reading this wrong, because I'm reading it as "Everyone should only need a couple nights to progress as fast as everyone else" which would be absolutely catastrophic for the progression raiding scene.

Equally skilled players who spend more time working on something should be able to progress faster. That's the very nature of an MMORPG.

I play WoW because I like raiding. I like hanging out with my guildmates and killing bosses. PVP is alright but not particularly my cup of tea (I prefer Starcraft for competitive player-vs-player action). Alts can be fun but they don't drive me to log in. Achievements are nice but again, I don't log in for them. My professions are maxed and I have all the recipes I care to get - there's nothing to entertain me there.

Even when everything's on farm, I prefer having 2-3 nights a week just to clear everything, so I can log in and have fun playing World of Warcraft with my friends. If it only takes 2 nights a week to progress (or perhaps more likely, 4 nights for maybe a month or two), then what is WoW going to offer me when everything's on farm?

Raiders don't raid 4+ nights a week because we have to, we raid because we like to. This policy, to me, doesn't read as "I don't have to spend as long raiding", it reads as "There isn't as much for me to do."


I think you read it wrong. The point of the post was "People shouldn't be forced on everyday" and not "People should progress just as fast as everyone else" as you were saying.


The lines that concern me are "to keep up on progression" and "those types of things can't lead to player power or else everyone will be back to having to log on every single night to keep pace." That implies that killing bosses will only take a couple nights. Or perhaps more accurately, I'll raid for 4 nights a week for a couple months, and then clear everything in 2-3 hours of farming (and be done playing World of Warcraft for the week).
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Yes, Firelands is the raid in 4.2, and 7 is the total number of bosses.

We think 7 is our current ideal for number of bosses in a raid. (We launched Cataclysm with two full raids of 4-6 bosses each.) We're also spending a lot of time making the Firelands bosses as awesome as possible - - creating unique models, animations, effects, sounds, etc. etc. Previously a lot of bosses were larger versions of existing models, which was fine, but that tradeoff is made somewhere. We shift to making fewer but more epic boss fights and there's a tradeoff somewhere. We're concentrating our efforts into a smaller number of fights so that each fight is bigger and better, they're still obviously going to be extremely challenging, but once it is on farm you're not having to spend two, three, maybe four nights just to clear it because the raid is so huge.

Our ideal situation would, of course, be to launch as many raids as possible with this current ideal number of around 7 bosses, but that's not something we're ever going to promise. We'd love to be able to produce unlimited amounts of content anywhere, not just raids, for that matter. We think one raid per patch with around 7 bosses is a super solid experience, though, especially with how much effort is going into Firelands. We don't think anyone is going to be disappointed.

On a side note, the whole daily quest thing hasn't sparked much excitement yet, but with the preview going live here in a few hours (and BlizzCast 16) hopefully we can impress how awesome that's going to be, too.

Again, there's a pretty aggressive development cycle for 4.2, so it's not going to be very long before we're on the PTR, and not very long (comparatively) before release.


I reallly REALLLLY enjoy epic fights with great music, dialogue and such. For example, the fights against Illidian, Kil'Jaeden, and Ragnaros. When these fights get on farm, though, like you mentioned, I think all the hard work that you guys put into making the fights as epic as possible will become fairly unattractive.
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100 Human Mage
7365
04/28/2011 04:37 PMPosted by Catlitter
Come on people. You know all their talent is focused on the next MMO.


Its not the "next" MMO. Its a new game that coexists with the others. Its like how Starcraft and WoW coexist. They said so in an interview during Wotlk. Whether they changed their mind on that though, who knows.
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100 Human Warlock
12500
04/28/2011 04:39 PMPosted by Dorns
with the rest of the week to twiddle your thumbs because of a lack of content.

whoa, whoa... hold up brah.

did you miss the part about BRAND NEW DAILIES!

hint: you can log in EVERY DAY to do them (but you shouldn't feel forced to!).
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85 Tauren Druid
9460
04/28/2011 03:10 PMPosted by Bashiok
On a side note, the whole daily quest thing hasn't sparked much excitement yet, but with the preview going live here in a few hours (and BlizzCast 16) hopefully we can impress how awesome that's going to be, too.


Where are the BlizzCasts and how do I watch / listen to them?

Also, as far as what you said with Firelands, honestly a ton of guilds are still working through either normal or heroic mode of the current raids. Our guild is working hard at it and we're only 5/13 HM (10-man), and although that puts us way behind the top 500 guilds, it still puts us well ahead of the "majority".

We like what we've seen and heard about Firelands, and I don't mind fewer bosses really. It just opens up our schedule for more PvP.

But I dislike the model you guys use where there is just 1 role or class that can get a legendary weapon. It feels like exactly not the right thing to do. I'm saying this as someone who will be able to use the staff. Why shouldn't my healers or tanks have something similarly epic to work toward? /puzzle

Anyway I would like the approx time frame as soon as you guys are comfortable to say it, because it really helps to plan whether I should be whipping my people into pushing current HM's as fast as we can, or whether T12 is coming out next month in which case there is not much point to sweating.
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
14405
From what I gather from the preview... The new dailies will create the feeling of being forced to complete them every day with the way the phases and whatnot unfold for each individual character.

no?


Well, someone doing the dailies every day will certainly achieve the rewards faster than someone who doesn't... But there's no comparison between coordinating 10 or 25 people to put all their concentration into the game for many hours a night, multiple nights, and someone choosing to log in and do a few quests by themselves every day.


Exactly. There's no comparison between the two. Which is why doing dailies every day is NOT an acceptable replacement for the time I could have spent raiding.
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100 Human Warlock
12500
04/28/2011 04:42 PMPosted by Bombmagic
Come on people. You know all their talent is focused on the next MMO.


Its not the "next" MMO. Its a new game that coexists with the others. Its like how Starcraft and WoW coexist. They said so in an interview during Wotlk. Whether they changed their mind on that though, who knows.

well its probably the "next" MMOFPS or whatever hybrid child they are thinking of trying.

but, yes, the cannon is supposedly not SC, Diablo or WoW... but we'll wait to see on that one.
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85 Undead Rogue
10520
Yes, Firelands is the raid in 4.2, and 7 is the total number of bosses.

We think 7 is our current ideal for number of bosses in a raid. (We launched Cataclysm with two full raids of 4-6 bosses each.) We're also spending a lot of time making the Firelands bosses as awesome as possible - - creating unique models, animations, effects, sounds, etc. etc. Previously a lot of bosses were larger versions of existing models, which was fine, but that tradeoff is made somewhere. We shift to making fewer but more epic boss fights and there's a tradeoff somewhere. We're concentrating our efforts into a smaller number of fights so that each fight is bigger and better, they're still obviously going to be extremely challenging, but once it is on farm you're not having to spend two, three, maybe four nights just to clear it because the raid is so huge.

Our ideal situation would, of course, be to launch as many raids as possible with this current ideal number of around 7 bosses, but that's not something we're ever going to promise. We'd love to be able to produce unlimited amounts of content anywhere, not just raids, for that matter. We think one raid per patch with around 7 bosses is a super solid experience, though, especially with how much effort is going into Firelands. We don't think anyone is going to be disappointed.

On a side note, the whole daily quest thing hasn't sparked much excitement yet, but with the preview going live here in a few hours (and BlizzCast 16) hopefully we can impress how awesome that's going to be, too.

Again, there's a pretty aggressive development cycle for 4.2, so it's not going to be very long before we're on the PTR, and not very long (comparatively) before release.


How's the lore? Is there going to be a ton of plot development? I love me some plot development.
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100 Human Warlock
12500
[I'm saying this as someone who will be able to use the staff. Why shouldn't my healers or tanks have something similarly epic to work toward? /puzzle

because your healers and tanks just had an expansion with 2 legendary weapons available to them?

like tanks need another shot at a legendary anyways.
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89 Human Priest
7625
I'd say that only one raid a patch is a poor tactical decision. That brings a lot of stress of art designers to make it A) Unique B) Varied and C) Interesting. If it fails at any of those things that means the tier fails and we enter the ToC trap. Also, if the bosses are poorly balanced then, again, the tier fails. Neferian and Al'akir were both poorly balanced between 10 and 25 man, but that was fairly reasonable because a raid could focus on the other one. If Rag isn't balanced then 10/25 man, the imbalanced one is screwed.

It boils down to, can you, blizzard, make content that is varied enough, balanced enough, and difficult enough to maintain the raiding community's interest for however long this will be the only raid. And, I am skeptical as to if you can.
Edited by Imnotblind on 4/28/2011 4:51 PM PDT
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17 Draenei Shaman
50
Part of me hopes you guys just keep parroting one another for another fifteen pages or so, just so that one of you can then say "LOOK BLIZZ, A 20-PLUS PAGE THREAD OF PEOPLE WHO HATE THIS!"
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85 Worgen Death Knight
12515
Well now I'm confused... What happen to the War of the Ancients raid? :(
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85 Goblin Warrior
1440
04/28/2011 03:10 PMPosted by Bashiok
On a side note, the whole daily quest thing hasn't sparked much excitement yet, but with the preview going live here in a few hours (and BlizzCast 16) hopefully we can impress how awesome that's going to be, too.

Going to be my first BlizzCast.
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