Survival PVE Guide (4.1)

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85 Night Elf Hunter
3110
Back: Enchant Bracer - Greater Critical Strike or


Cool. Enchant your cloak with bracer enchant ;)

Great post I always wondered about haste & hit caps, now I know what to do when I reforge. Hopefully this gets stickied.
90 Goblin Hunter
18005
05/03/2011 01:22 PMPosted by Chilk
I hope you're the author of the thread on the EJ forums because you basically ripped off a lot of data on their and added a couple things of your own then called it yours...


Haters going to hate, that's life on the internet. Regardless of where the information came from or who put it to words first, this guide has been needed on these forums for a long time.
I hope you're the author of the thread on the EJ forums because you basically ripped off a lot of data on their and added a couple things of your own then called it yours...


If they've got correct information, almost all strategy threads for a spec should be relatively similar in terms of data- that's not ripping off, that's compiling accurate information in a single location.

If you're claiming the wording is somehow ripped off I have to wonder if you've read the EJ thread- this thread's style and wording has a lot more in common with the MM thread on this forum (by the same author not surprisingly) than with the content of the EJ thread.

Esoth is the author of the EJ SV thread and I doubt he'd have any complaint with the contents of this post, and these forums have needed stickies for all specs for a long time. Kalilah has done this forum a huge favor by taking on the task of doing not this thread but also the MM thread (and possibly a BM thread in the future).


Haters going to hate, that's life on the internet. Regardless of where the information came from or who put it to words first, this guide has been needed on these forums for a long time.


Greatly appreciate the support guys. I have done my best to site and give credit to the sources where appropriate. If anyone see's any information that has not been given proper credit, I would be happy to correct it.
Edited by Kalilah on 5/4/2011 6:44 AM PDT
05/03/2011 10:21 PMPosted by Paulabdul
Back: Enchant Bracer - Greater Critical Strike or


Cool. Enchant your cloak with bracer enchant ;)

Great post I always wondered about haste & hit caps, now I know what to do when I reforge. Hopefully this gets stickied.


Wow, bad mistake on my part. Thank you for pointing that out. I have corrected the back enchant.

The item numbers were one digit off, back is 52777 and wrist is 52778.
85 Orc Hunter
1380
Kalilah,

Just wanted to say thanks for the effort you have put in to making these guides. The hunter community has been lacking, at least on these forums.
I hope your guide does get the sticky and keep up the good work.

One question, do you plan on making a pvp guide?
Kalilah,

Just wanted to say thanks for the effort you have put in to making these guides. The hunter community has been lacking, at least on these forums.
I hope your guide does get the sticky and keep up the good work.

One question, do you plan on making a pvp guide?


Praetin,
Thank you, gald to help out.

There is no way I could make a pvp guide. The only pvp I really do are the random BG's. I also have very little arena experience.

WHU has a pvp writer now that may be of interest. I check out his posts from time to time.
90 Troll Hunter
12810
Bump to keep on front page. Really good survival guide which these forums kinda need.
85 Orc Hunter
8515
04/21/2011 01:45 PMPosted by Kalilah
My fellow raiders like the 4 sec root provided by entrapment and I find it has more value than a 4 second cooldown reduction on disengage.


This is bad to me. If your only dps that ever touch adds is ranged then it's a beneficial talent. If you have any melee dpsing adds, or any ranged that need to be in melee range to aoe, they are going to get hit. Since it's a snare all threat is dropped and the adds instead hit whatever targets are in range.
05/04/2011 11:12 PMPosted by Refire
My fellow raiders like the 4 sec root provided by entrapment and I find it has more value than a 4 second cooldown reduction on disengage.


This is bad to me. If your only dps that ever touch adds is ranged then it's a beneficial talent. If you have any melee dpsing adds, or any ranged that need to be in melee range to aoe, they are going to get hit. Since it's a snare all threat is dropped and the adds instead hit whatever targets are in range.


Refire, to help understand your point, which fights would entrapment be bad for you? Off the top of my head I cant think of any fights that entrapment would be a hindrance instead of a help.
90 Troll Hunter
11785

Refire, to help understand your point, which fights would entrapment be bad for you? Off the top of my head I cant think of any fights that entrapment would be a hindrance instead of a help.
I had to stop dropping it during black phase on H maloriak as our rogue was getting 1 shot from entrapment procs.

Refire, to help understand your point, which fights would entrapment be bad for you? Off the top of my head I cant think of any fights that entrapment would be a hindrance instead of a help.
I had to stop dropping it during black phase on H maloriak as our rogue was getting 1 shot from entrapment procs.


I have never used frost traps during black phases and snake traps are a wast of focus if launched and not worth the pitiful DPS. Our tank would just constantly S key around the room. Plus frost traps would block the view of the puddles. Never saw any benefit in slowing the oozes.

I only use frost traps for the aberrations during red/blue phases.
Edited by Kalilah on 5/5/2011 8:31 AM PDT
90 Troll Hunter
11785
Well no, the trap he got one shot from was untriggered from aberrations by the stairs, but I stopped dropping them after certain point before black.
85 Orc Hunter
8515



This is bad to me. If your only dps that ever touch adds is ranged then it's a beneficial talent. If you have any melee dpsing adds, or any ranged that need to be in melee range to aoe, they are going to get hit. Since it's a snare all threat is dropped and the adds instead hit whatever targets are in range.


Refire, to help understand your point, which fights would entrapment be bad for you? Off the top of my head I cant think of any fights that entrapment would be a hindrance instead of a help.


Heroic nefarion is the biggest one that comes to mind, we're all stacked for dominion slows on onyxia. An add walks through gets entrapped, the tank has the rest of the group of adds picking up an add from behind. The add is wailing on a cloth, plus a tail swipe. Heroic cho'gall is another example where demo locks go into melee range. Typically threat wouldn't be an issue because our fire mages that are going full corruption are destroying the threat, but as soon as entrapment goes off that person gets destroyed. Guilds that aren't going full corruption may also risks frost dks/other melee that may help with dps on the adds get demolished with a snare.

Even phase 2 Nef, still have to have 100% uptime on frost traps, if a rezzed add gets healer threat and the third tank is late, it's now ensnared in the raid, even with a taunt, beating on people, with crackles coming extremely often. The talent just seems like much more of a risk than a reward. I would argue that point of no escape would be the best way to spend those two, or hunter vs. wild. Hunter vs. wild rather obviously increases your survivability and point of no escape gives you free dps in any instance when you're dropping a frost trap. The only time a shorter disengage cooldown comes in handy in a PvE setting is back to back cinders on heroic nefarion. I can't think of anything else where that much movement (the extra movement granted from a shorter disengage cd) is relevant in the current raid tier.

Also I forgot to mention in my first post thanks again for this guide along with your MM guide. Even if the information has been in a similar format already, Elitist Jerks has a very sour reputation with most people who I'd be directing to a guide such as this. Having a spot on the hunter forums for it would be great so thanks for taking the time and effort to put this together.
Edited by Refire on 5/5/2011 11:04 AM PDT
Refire,

Thanks for the insight. We are pulling Heroic Nef and/or Alakir tonight for the first time. I wasnt thinking about those fights since I havent had any experience there yet. I will keep this in mind. Wish us luck =]

In response to the MM guide, I hope it has helped anyone you have directed to it.
90 Dwarf Hunter
14760
With regards to entrapment, so far I've found more cases where it's useful to have than dangerous, but this would depend on your circumstances.

For example on Cho'gall it's extremely nice to have entrapment for the adds, however one week we were short ranged and had to have our rogue help with the adds and even though I warned him to be careful not to engage when they were entrapped we still had issues with him getting hit by them because of that.

I was specifically asked not to put slow traps under the adds for black phase (we're working on heroic Maloriak now) so it hasn't been an issue there.

To clarify though, being entrapped doesn't mean it drops threat, what it means is that if their highest threat target isn't in range to be hit, they will hit whoever is in range regardless of threat. But in situations like Cho'gall adds, where there isn't a tank in melee range and there is melee dps, that's where the danger exists.

I was specifically asked not to put slow traps under the adds for black phase (we're working on heroic Maloriak now) so it hasn't been an issue there.


Our tank really likes entrapment. I time the new frost traps just before the next set of aberrations are spawned. This roots them in place and allows our tank a little more flexibility in picking up the new adds.
90 Dwarf Hunter
14760

Our tank really likes entrapment. I time the new frost traps just before the next set of aberrations are spawned. This roots them in place and allows our tank a little more flexibility in picking up the new adds.


Oh yes, I sometimes give our tank entrapment for the aberrations, but not on the black phase. Although I'm considering switching to MM for heroic Maloriak for the extra burst AoE from rapid fire.
85 Draenei Hunter
10335

Our tank really likes entrapment. I time the new frost traps just before the next set of aberrations are spawned. This roots them in place and allows our tank a little more flexibility in picking up the new adds.


Oh yes, I sometimes give our tank entrapment for the aberrations, but not on the black phase. Although I'm considering switching to MM for heroic Maloriak for the extra burst AoE from rapid fire.


When they asked me not to drop frosts for the black phase, it was mostly because some people find it hard to see the black patches through the frost trap effects, no one actually complained about being meleed. I switched to opening with a snake trap instead, just to keep the Swills rooted for a bit while the tank got some aggro instead of running around chasing ones that over-eager dps pulled. No one has complained so far.

I'm also thinking of just going MM though, I'm MM for everything other than H Mal, H Halfus and Normal Chogall, and MM aoe seems like it'll be fine. Although if we start Heroic Chogall in the next few weeks we might need entrapment for it again.

Just for the record, you can make a pretty decent MM PvE spec with Entrapment too, you just give up some pet damage to do it. Our heroic Conclave strat generally doesn't have a DK to kite the adds and no one to help me pick up all the adds, so I generally respec to pick up Entrapment and Concussive Barrage in the same spec, which makes rounding up and killing the adds without anyone being hit by the debuff pretty simple.
90 Goblin Hunter
18005
What does a hunter have to do to get a sticky around here?
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