Ask The Devs #6: Guild Advancement (Answers)

Community Manager
Q: The guild perks system makes it unnaturally hard to start a new guild, since a guild without all perks is at an obvious disadvantage in recruitment. In addition, it rewards just recruiting random people (who might only care about the perks) to get guild XP. What are your thoughts on this? Will it be addressed? – Lolisa [Europe, English], Mith [North America]

    A: We knew when we decided to add guild features for Cataclysm that this was one of the risks. If the guild perks and rewards aren't interesting, then there is no motivation to join a guild or work to improve your guild. On the other hand if they are too powerful, then you feel shackled to your old guild, even if it's not a healthy relationship for you. We were careful to only choose perks that didn't contribute to player power, and we let you keep any rewards you earn if you ever have to leave your guild. The perks are nice, no doubt, but you're going to have less fun in an established guild of jerks than you would starting your own guild with fewer perks.

    We don't think recruiting random people is healthy for a guild. Rewards are never going to be a substitute for strong social ties. We really encourage as many people as possible to seek out guilds (and we hope the new Guild Finder will help with that), but joining a guild at random will likely end in tears.

    On the other hand, there may be some benefit to having less churn on starting guilds. Before Cataclysm, some guilds would get started halfheartedly and then crumble again after a few weeks or months. Maintaining an active guild asks a lot of the guild master and leading officers. If you join an established guild in Cataclysm, hopefully it will continue to be around for awhile. But because of reputation, even brand new guilds may seem like a more serious option than they were before Cataclysm, since the founders of the guild know that anyone interested is likely looking for a long-term home and are not just hopping from guild to guild.


Q: Leveling guild speed varies depending on the amount of players. Have you considered tweaking the system so that guilds with fewer members get more experience per player and bigger guilds get less to even it out? Are there plans to allow smaller guilds to level their guild faster? – 信蜂 火星小喵喵 [Taiwan], Sergan [Latin America], Jardar [Europe, German], Паладиа [Europe, Russian], Amasisa [Europe, Spanish], Shory, 부너맨/노대현혹, Meltdown, 치킨아고마워/유진님 [Korea]

    A: Guild Challenges coming in patch 4.1 are designed to help address this issue. Obviously we already enforce a cap on the amount of XP that can be gained per day to keep the disparity from being too large, but it’s clear that smaller guilds still need some help. We'll monitor the impact of Guild Challenges and see if any further changes need to be made.


Q: Are you planning to address the issue of Guild Leaders mass kicking members, once the guild reaches level 25? – Bloodbliss [North America], Юхани [Europe, Russian]

    A: We don't really have any interest in controlling who a guild leader chooses to kick, or when. Guilds are fairly transparent and simple player-run groups, and we have to be extremely careful about what systems we implement that impact how people can operate their guilds. We could absolutely make it more difficult for guild leaders to kick their members, and that might help very slightly with these situations, but the result would actually be that guild leaders would just be much less likely to invite new members. We want people to be in guilds, as opposed to making guild masters afraid that if they invite someone they may never be able to kick them if they don't work out.

    Allowing players to keep some level of guild reputation is an option we can look into to help with this situation, though.


Q: Are we going to see guild houses someday so we could finally get a special gather place for the guild, to meet and interact easily? – Ellidryl[Europe, French], Греланд[Europe, Russian], Ledieri [Europe, Spanish], Bodywreckér [North America]

    A: Guild housing is something we have discussed many times. It would be neat to have a place for people to hang out, but every time it has come up as a possibility we don't think that is worth the amount of time and resources it would take to implement (and do it right). This is one of those features where if we ever decided to do it, the benefit would have to outweigh other content we could be working on. Also, we don't feel that we need any new ways for players to hide themselves away. If possible we at least like people to be hanging around in the cities, if not out in the world. We know that many guilds, despite lack of official guild housing, have designated meeting locations throughout the world, which we think is really cool. If you don't have one yet it might be something to explore.



Q: Why is guild experience capped daily instead of weekly? – Omegal [North America], Nuckels [Europe, English]

    A: We implemented a daily cap so that more players get a chance to contribute every day. A weekly cap would make this more difficult since a guild might hit the cap the first day, leaving no experience for the other members to gain over the remaining 6 days of the week. If you could only login on Thursday, and the cap was always already hit before you could log in, you might not be as interested in this whole guild progression thing.

    However, we will be reducing the impact of the cap as we move though the Cataclysm patches. We will most likely start by increasing the daily cap, and removing it from more of the higher levels.


Q: Why isn't guild XP from quests a factor of character level, quest difficulty, and intended quest level, instead of being derived directly from XP gained? Why is guild reputation so hard to gain before level 70? It feels as though it's harder to gain reputation with your guild at the beginning and easier as you gain levels; shouldn't it be the other way around? – Atun [North America], Threshold [Europe, English], Helíana [Latin America]

    A: The experience gained from a quest is directly related to all of these factors, which is why we use it as a basis to reward guild experience. Clearly this value is much smaller at lower levels and we know that this does not feel great with the current tuning. We're going to tune the XP multiplier for doing lower level quests so it doesn't feel like such a waste. Guild reputation suffers from this same multiplier issue too, and when we tune the experience the rep gain will be improved as well. Rep gain will also be much improved though in patch 4.1 with the introduction of the new guild tabards, and increased values on clearing dungeons, raids and winning arenas and battlegrounds.


Q: Is there any way to recover a guild which is deliberately disbanded by evil account hacker or lunatic guild leader? – 哇靠不是吧 [Taiwan]

    A: The best way to deal with this situation is to immediately contact a World of Warcraft Game Master.


Q: It seems that the new guild system is killing off the Pick Up Group culture in KR. In KR, raids were generally done through PUG and players did not care what kind of guilds they joined for raids. Can we expect more localized guild features to support the unique raid culture of the Korean region? –밥상의달인, Jeran, 블러드베인 [Korea]

    We will continue to pay close attention to and work to protect the various in-game cultures in each region. However, we don't have plans to change the structure of the system at this time.


Q: Are there any plans to allow for easier alt access to the same guild rewards as someone's main character? Perhaps some kind of +rep item that is BoA and can only be bought by an exalted character? – Serule [North America], Xheevas [Europe, French]

    A: This is one of the main reasons 4.1 has new guild tabards with 50/100% bonus to rep. We made sure to place these at friendly and honored so they would be easy to obtain by alts. We are considering adding an even larger bonus to an exalted, BOA version as well. Great minds think alike!


Q: Will there be additional levels of rewards for those guilds that have reached the cap in future patches? Are you going to add levels beyond 25? – Sergan [Latin America], Carnesîr [Europe, German], Zippi [Europe, English], Gabän [Europe, Spanish]

    A: Yes, we will continue to add rewards to the system as necessary. A great example is the guild reward we intend to add in patch 4.2 for guilds that obtain the new legendary staff. Guilds at level 25 also get the benefit of large gold deposits for completing Guild Challenges. Capping the guild system at level 25 felt right for the amount of content we wanted to provide in Cataclysm. We designed the system with expansions in mind, so raising the cap is something players will most likely see down the road.



Archive:

Ask the Devs - Answers #1 http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2228225718
Ask the Devs - Answers #2: PvP http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2267599521
Ask the Devs - Answers #3: UI http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2301722463
Ask the Devs - Answers #4: Armor and Weapons http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2353015977
Ask the Devs – Answers #5: Achievements http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2369681189
Edited by Kaivax on 4/27/2011 10:33 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
7975
04/27/2011 10:20 AMPosted by Kaivax
We don't think recruiting random people is healthy for a guild. Rewards are never going to be a substitute for strong social ties. We really encourage as many people as possible to seek out guilds (and we hope the new Guild Finder will help with that), but joining a guild at random will likely end in tears.


I love you guys!
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85 Troll Druid
3030
I feel as if the whole social ties part just isn't enough. As someone in a brand new guild with a few friends I can say that our roster has never exceeded 20 people. Mostly because people would join, see our level and then quit. While I admit the few people who have stayed have proven themselves to be our real "friends" and will be rewarded for it, it still doesn't solve the problem that leveling our guild takes forever. Don't get me wrong I don't think you guys screwed up big with it. I think you're on the right track but I would definitely love to see some bonuses for us smaller guilds to keep the playing field even.
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85 Human Warrior
7095
Really lame considering there were soo many better questions
there really needs to be some sort of way to change the role or powers of the GM to prevent guilds from floundering. For a GM to up and Kick ppl is sorta totalitarian and should be more of a council/democratic decision for example when you kick a player from a 5man random but instead make it a % of the accounts tied to the guild.

"Well what if there aren't that many ppl on ?"
Then the vote cannot pass !
or make it so ppl can vote when they login


Guild housing?? really ppl come on use the search function on the website/forums ... lets not waste our little time communicating with the Dev's on such a silly question. It has been answered many times before I site the following forum posts
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2089199892?page=4#61
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2228427787#9
thats just 2 out of 4203 and i'm sure there is some blue post in one of these threads saying the exact same thing. L2Search

Just a quick question about guild challenges. In the tool tip it states "Each guild challenge completed will reward guild experience beyong the daily cap. If your guild is not capped, this will extend your current daily cap."

I'm in a small guild and we don't make our daily cap very often, and based on the tool tip this will award no extra guild xp but extend a the cap by 300000, am I understanding this wrong? Will we get 300000guild xp or will it just raise our daily cap? if its the latter of the 2 then there is no motivation for guilds to do these other than they are reaching the cap or for the gold that gets put into the guild bank (which then a devious GM can snatch and kick ppl).

Guild xp really should scale w/accounts that are in the guild (not by how many toons are in the guild) and of course it needs to have a base starting lvl 16580000 is alot of xp for small guilds (1-10 accounts) that aren't hardcore fiends for their war crack, it would seem smaller if 100% of the xp we players earned went to the guild as well but it doesn't work like that.
Edited by Weiland on 4/27/2011 11:01 AM PDT
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"If the guild perks and rewards aren't interesting, then there is no motivation to join a guild or work to improve your guild."
Except all the other reasons everyone has always joined guilds. In my experience, far more people were guilded than not even before guild perks.

"We were careful to only choose perks that didn't contribute to player power"
Almost all of the perks do exactly that. +Mount speed, +XP, +rep, +honor, +JP - all amazingly powerful perks for individuals.

"The perks are nice, no doubt, but you're going to have less fun in an established guild of jerks than you would starting your own guild with fewer perks."
Well, no. This isn't turning out to be true at all, especially since you cannot access these perks without tons and tons of people in a guild. It would take a small guild years - at best - to get some of these powerful perks, even with the new guild challenges.

"joining a guild at random will likely end in tears"
Indeed. And lots of QQ. But also with powerful perks.



"We're going to tune the XP multiplier for doing lower level quests so it doesn't feel like such a waste."
That would be awesome.
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85 Human Warrior
7095
What I got out of this.

Big mass recruit guilds will continue to reap the perks.

Small family/friends guilds will still reach level cap shortly before the next xpac.


See he gets it
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85 Human Paladin
9670
04/27/2011 10:20 AMPosted by Kaivax
We don't think recruiting random people is healthy for a guild. Rewards are never going to be a substitute for strong social ties. We really encourage as many people as possible to seek out guilds (and we hope the new Guild Finder will help with that), but joining a guild at random will likely end in tears.


"Yes, I do understand what you are saying. Now let me tell you how it works in the real world..." (Chin-pokomon, South Park)

04/27/2011 10:20 AMPosted by Kaivax
We were careful to only choose perks that didn't contribute to player power


04/27/2011 10:20 AMPosted by Kaivax
Guilds at level 25 also get the benefit of large gold deposits for completing Guild Challenges


/sigh
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1 Undead Rogue
0
Why are there no weekly guild challenges for arena? Do you guys not like arena at all anymore? To me this just seems like a way to push more people into doing Rated BGs, which seems kindof sad to be completely honest.

Thanks for letting my Arena based guild get the guild daily capped now, I do appreciate that, but I still don't understand why we were left out of the bonus of Guild challenges.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
9670
Based on the Bizz answers, it seems the design that "Large guilds get perks, small guilds get the short end of the stick" is a design intent.

Pity.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
2580
04/27/2011 11:09 AMPosted by Lankot
Why are there no weekly guild challenges for arena?


They kind of already answered this in their PvP Q&A....

03/22/2011 11:02 AMPosted by Bashiok
We thought it made more sense to have guilds focused on BGs than on Arenas, since the latter just don’t require the large infrastructure of a guild for support.
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04/27/2011 10:39 AMPosted by Weiland
there really needs to be some sort of way to change the role or powers of the GM

Honestly, I like Blizzard's response on that. I think more people would complain if Blizzard implemented some sort of official control method to monitor guilds than if they just let them do their own thing and get out of the way. "Let them do their own thing and get out of the way" is the perfect motto Blizzard should have toward guilds. Unfortunately guild perks do not do that.


I have an alt in a 4-person guild. With all new characters and before guild challenges, it would have taken us probably 4 or 5 years to reach guild level 2. Not 25, mind you - level 2. With guild challenges, we would have to run a dungeon every day for 8 weeks to get to guild level 2 - so that's 2 months for 1 level, running dungeons every day (or at least 7 times a week). Even at that rate, I don't think we'd be able to even get to guild level 10 before the next expansion. (Not to mention we do not run dungeons every single day.)

If Blizzard wants to make guild perks extremely powerful - which they have, and I don't think they can put that cat back in the bag - that's fine. But since these extremely powerful perks are not accessible to small guilds, they directly incent people to go to big guilds - QQ or no, jerks or no, risk of getting booted at 25 or no.
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65 Worgen Druid
1330
Did anyone not ask a question about Roleplay guilds? Or did you not answer one? Because those of us in Roleplay guilds are either forced to become part PvE/PvP or not be able to earn any guild rewards.
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85 Orc Warrior
7005
04/27/2011 11:23 AMPosted by Creoda
Did anyone not ask a question about Roleplay guilds? Or did you not answer one? Because those of us in Roleplay guilds are either forced to become part PvE/PvP or not be able to earn any guild rewards.


Wait, if you don't PvE/PvP already, why exactly do you need the rewards/perks? O.o
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