Ask The Devs #6: Guild Advancement (Answers)

90 Blood Elf Priest
0
Small guilds do fine if they have active players. We have less than 20 players and have reached level 19 as of this post, and that was with two of our most active levelers leaving before cataclysm. You recruit quality people by conducting yourself in a friendly manner with everyone during the game, if people enjoy your company and the way you play the game, they will want to join your guild. If they leave because of your guild level then they probably aren't the kind of reliable person you want in your guild anyway.

If you are concerned with the GM kicking you out en masse at level 25 then it sounds to me like you joined a guild for the perks and not because you had a rapport with the players.

The biggest issue with the guild system and how it affects smaller guilds is the large number of items required for guild achievements for example; 10,000 fish for the fish feast, or 1000 flasks for the cauldron, or The "Stay Classy" achievement. There are others as well that will take our guild years to reach in our current state.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9645
On trollbane I was the only one left in my guild of friends. I leveled my paladin from 80-85 did 20 dailies per day and leveled a rogue and DK to 80 and 85 respectively doing 7-10 dailes per day on those characters. I leveled the guild of 1 to 2nd level. That being said I did every Cataclysm quest on my paladin.

I moved to Moonguard, joined a guild that has 10-12 active people on. It was level 12 by the time I leveled my guild on trollbane to level 2.

The guild of 10-12 active people has a now guild level of 18 and we're pretty happy. Of course now guild challenges will make things faster. But I think its fairly satisfying rate of advancement.
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90 Human Paladin
11395
I think the Daily/Weekly Guild XP cap should be removed for low level guilds.
Only implement a Max Cap when a guild reaches level 10.

It prevents leveling TOO fast (like getting to level 25 in a week) but would help make guilds with smaller populations more appealing to those looking to join a group that's actually getting some perks.

Being stuck in a Level 3 guild would make me feel like the last kid picked for Dodge Ball even if I did like all the people in it.


*edit: wording
Edited by Zahk on 5/3/2011 9:44 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
5950
I think the Daily/Weekly Guild XP cap should be removed for low level guilds.
Only implement a Max Cap when a guild reaches level 10.

It prevents leveling TOO fast (like getting to level 25 in a week) but would help make guilds with smaller populations more appealing to those looking to join a group that's actually getting some perks.

Being stuck in a Level 3 guild would make me feel like the last kid picked for Dodge Ball even if I did like all the people in it.


*edit: wording
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3315
And what about the boa's???? Level 10 and LEVEL 20 FOR HELM!??????

Lemme break u down the mindset of a normal average wow player.
- I dont have 500 hours a day to spend playing the game. So i do the BEST possible i can. Hmmm a level 20+ guild has 10% more xp 10% more honor/jp 10% more rep, oh and faster mount speed. Well since hardly 5% of the wow population actually have good core or IRL relationships with friends ingame. Idc what guild im in as long as its level 25.

- Time to face fact Blizz, people are not sentimental through a virtual game. If they can be ina level 25 guild vs. a level 5 guild then 99% of them will join the 25 guild every day of the week. Your system is built completely around LARGE guilds. Guilds that lack organization and skill yet they have 500 members so they just get more and more ppl everyday b.c they want the level 25 perks. Riddle me this....i was recruiting for my guild and got a pst saying oh what level is ur guild i said oh were level 6 growing fast, we got over 50 85s do premades raids, blah blah blah blah, as soon as he saw level 6 he said oh no thnx my guild is level 25 im revered and i really cant go down in level. I said then why did u ask for info about my guild. THIS IS JUST BEYOND ME.."he replies, well my guild is completely dead we have like 20 members left and we dont do anything but still the guild is level 25 so..."

- That was my breaking point, this system has come to the point and it has honestly defeated the purpose of a guild. No more are guilds wanted by a great skillfull community or funny laidback friendly leveling guild. Now its ALL guild level.

- "We dont like to have guilds inviting randoms to join their guilds."
Im sorry but your whole new guild system completely endorses this 100% whether u like it or not.

The worst part is their are easy multiple fixes to this crisis:
My suggestions:

- Put a guild member cap of 300 members( Have some alt-based system, like real id for guild) 300 total people is plenty of activity and many have alts which would not be accounted for in the 200 so really 300 accounts of people. This balances out the guilds on the server. On mine there are 3 guilds that own at least 50% of the active population because theyre level 25.

- Make good perks available at earlier levels. Boa's leveling, mount increases and honor increases. You shouldnt need a level 20 guild to achieve this. It makes it way too hard for a new guild to startup in fact its almost impossible. Just have the perk system balanced instead of higher u are the better perks and rewards u have. Also by doing this youl have very good 25 perks available at lets say level 10 now, this may cause some problems but the fix is quite simple, guild rep! Have perks enabled by certain amount of guild rep, rather than guild level. That way its based on dedication and loyalty to a guild rather than " oh il just quit and join there b.c their level 25." And now because of this keep the current rate of rep so that u cant get honored too quickly. This will prevent the joining of randoms to high level guilds to offer no contributions but take advantage of the guild perks. Now players will have to EARN guild perks from their activity with the guild. YOU CONTRIBUTE YOU GAIN REWARDS. Atm there's no incentive to contribute to a guild whatsoever.


- Lower levels should be getting same xp as 85 quests in ratio terms. I dont care if u have to decrease the amount 85s get for rep and xp to make it balanced. Because if u implement the change above itl be extremely hard for lowbies to get rep to then use those rep based perks.

- Add in rewards and perks/achievements for a guilds overall growth not just by level. Meaning u start with 10 guildies and increase to 50 by the end of the week there should be bonuses for a growing beginning guild. Keep in mind the player(account) max of 300. This will give new guilds incentive to start up and grow.

- Have separate challenges for small guilds and large guilds. This is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Large level 20+ guilds should have harder challenges and bigger requirements for the guild to team up and achieve. Lower level and smaller guilds should be opposite. IN small new guilds there should be bg challenges for a group of 5 guildies, not RATED BGS. The fact that u only get good xp and rep from rated bgs just caters even more to the large advanced guilds. What happens if ur guild isnt all 85 and doesnt have at least 8 85s on at a time and they dont all have over 3k resil and are geared enough to win a rated bg. This feature would solve this problems that have created a huge RIFT in the guild societies.

PLEASE AT LEAST READ THIS ALL TO AT LEAST WIDEN YOUR GAZE. The guild system is currently flawed, and is catered completely towards high level guilds with ridiculous amounts of guild members. Anything over 300 members you dont even know your own guildies. Is this what ur aiming for? Guilds with 800 members that dont even know a quater of each other but they all stay just b.c of high guild level.
Edited by Hoozurdaddy on 5/3/2011 3:42 PM PDT
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85 Tauren Druid
4680
One question: i'm in a guild that specializes in faction reputations. i would like to believe that
the accumulation of different characters' reps is a serious problem with no easy solutions,
but that does seem counter-intuitive. Could you address the difficulty involved with replacing
the default that only gives the guild the highest charcter's number of reputations? we would rather assign characters appropriate reps to attain to contribute to the guild in a manner that is easier, and allows people to feel that they are contributing to the reward themselves, getting a pleasurable glow of being part of earning the 55 rep achievement, not merely benefiting from the work of others.
So, can this be repaired, and if so, when, and if it's more difficult than it seems, please explain.
Thank you in advance for your attention to this.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13415
"Q: Leveling guild speed varies depending on the amount of players. Have you considered tweaking the system so that guilds with fewer members get more experience per player and bigger guilds get less to even it out? Are there plans to allow smaller guilds to level their guild faster? – 信蜂 火星小喵喵 [Taiwan], Sergan [Latin America], Jardar [Europe, German], Паладиа [Europe, Russian], Amasisa [Europe, Spanish], Shory, 부너맨/노대현혹, Meltdown, 치킨아고마워/유진님 [Korea]


A: Guild Challenges coming in patch 4.1 are designed to help address this issue. Obviously we already enforce a cap on the amount of XP that can be gained per day to keep the disparity from being too large, but it’s clear that smaller guilds still need some help. We'll monitor the impact of Guild Challenges and see if any further changes need to be made. "

This answer is very disappointing. The Guild Challenges are the same exact stuff - run dungeon, do raid, do rated BG - that guilds that already had the time and numbers for were already doing. Small "family" guilds like mine that do unrated BGs, questing, and that kind of thing get the same thing we got from these activities before they were gussied up with the tag "Challenges": Absolutely nothing.

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58 Draenei Death Knight
150
Q: Is there any way to recover a guild which is deliberately disbanded by evil account hacker or lunatic guild leader? – 哇靠不是吧 [Taiwan]

    A: The best way to deal with this situation is to immediately contact a World of Warcraft Game Master.


Funny I just had a situation like this and the World of Warcraft Game Masters CANNOT do anything about this because of how the guilds are currently set up by the Devs. They stated that because there is no finite rule on how a guild is to be run - now if he locks everyone out of the guild bank and kicks anyone who complains and slowly starts draining assets for himself - that PER THE GM's is OK because they have not Disbanded the guild.

Again I have said this once I will say this 1,000 times that there needs to be an option to have a DEMOCRATICALLY run guild - where if the GUILD LEADER CHOOSES then they can give up their right to be the supreme *@*%-tator and let everyone vote on decisions for the guild.

It is not fair that people who choose to have a democratically run guild will inevitably face the horrors of a guild leader walking a fine line to where the GM's cannot do anything about it and the Devs refuse to look into the issue further.
Edited by Kuddlebunny on 5/4/2011 2:12 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
4925
RE: Guild exp/leveling. As a long time player, a bit of a loner, who has been in/out of numerouse guilds, the change in guild exp/lev is ridiculous. I.E. I joined one guild, leveled 20 to 25 levels one alt, and barely moved my guild rep. Thot that might be that guild's prob. Shifted guilds, same crap. I put many items in bank, got very few from bank. Assisted other players occasionally. Still crappy exp lev.

Speaking for many who will not address the GM's, you have made a GREAT mistake, and hobbled guys like us. Butttt guess what, I rather doubt that you care much as you sit around a meeting table, with all the perks the average player will never get and very few frustrations.

Yup, I'm an old geezer.
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75 Worgen Warrior
0
Answered absolutely nothing and it seems that our cries to get some of the crap of guilds fixed falls on deaf ears.

I just left a level 19 guild because the leader and all the officers joined a "better" guild on another server and havent been on in a month. We would beg everyday on Vent for him to come back and hand over leadership of the guild. But alas, he refuses to while his char remains at "Last online: Over 1 month" and the guild has slowly died.

Having been literally 2 weeks to exalted with the guild it pains me to leave it all behind but I needed to because it wasn't worth my time because the guild wasn't growing (and couldn't grow) and so we started a new guild from level 1.

You might ask "Hey, what about the leader and officers who quit, wouldn't they have to restart?" True but they joined an already established level 25 guild and had the last month to get their rep in the new guild because they KNEW FOR CERTAIN that they were not returning and were able to get their rep in an established guild that wasn't soon to disband.

It saddens me that you guys cannot see how poor guild rewards, rep and the whole leveling of it hurts innocent people. I bid you good day pffffttt




04/27/2011 10:20 AMPosted by Kaivax
A: The best way to deal with this situation is to immediately contact a World of Warcraft Game Master.


There ya go.
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62 Blood Elf Warlock
880
Q: Are you planning to address the issue of Guild Leaders mass kicking members, once the guild reaches level 25? – Bloodbliss [North America], Юхани [Europe, Russian]

A: We don't really have any interest in controlling who a guild leader chooses to kick, or when. Guilds are fairly transparent and simple player-run groups, and we have to be extremely careful about what systems we implement that impact how people can operate their guilds. We could absolutely make it more difficult for guild leaders to kick their members, and that might help very slightly with these situations, but the result would actually be that guild leaders would just be much less likely to invite new members. We want people to be in guilds, as opposed to making guild masters afraid that if they invite someone they may never be able to kick them if they don't work out.
this is not an answer to the question. What is this a debate between politicians? "No, we are not planning to address this issue by any venue."
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4545
Are you ever going to make it possible for small guilds to get the guild raid achieves?? (my guild is only 4 people)
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85 Night Elf Druid
4555
Almost all the "guild achieves" are fancy toasts for level 85s. "a level 85 of every class". "max skill in all professions" == level to high ground first. If you enjoy the quests of the realm enough to play a lot of lower characters, you may as well pretend the guild perks system doesn't exist - because for your running crowd, it won't.

I can get a huge percentage of the *players* in my guild to login, but Blizz' system doesn't notice or care. We can do a zip through, say, BFD, and the achieve got called a "guild run" - but we weren't level apropos, so I don't think it was worth anything except the shiny gold label. We've got two candidate level ranges for the new Guild Dungeon Runs... and people with workdays and medical conditions, so wish us luck aligning the moons and stars to actually have one. If one of our players gets too enthusiastic on solo play, having a level-apropos group of 4 for the 5-mans won't last either. (We tried a 3/5 run, and the Finder gave us no credit, regardless of claims in the patch notes to the contrary.) *shrug* Like the "summary" poster said, small guilds weren't their focus - and that's true - but what I read in the first 8 pages BARELY BRUSHED level-of-toons issues.

NOBODY in what I read so far covered crediting the human for presence instead of the toon being a guild member. SO a guildy's level-suited alt won't do.

We have players who began in our guild and still play with us though they "advanced" into raiding guilds. (Pre Cata, pre "perk".) If they come play with us now for a dungeon, it doesn't count as a guild run. Our style is to recruit the player, whether they bring all their toons or not - and Blizz' system has no clue how to handle that either.

Dailies are fun, but they're not why I came to Azeroth. To say I'm disappointed would imply I had expectations in the first place. What we wanted is a social group and made it so; from that I have gains that Blizz' coders can't code copies of for "level 21 guilds" to magically gain, nor can other guilds steal what ours enjoys.

But I still have an open offer of White Kitten to the guildie who dings level 3 for us.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
4335
who actually answers these questions? is it really the devs or do you guys hire politicians to figure out how to use as many words as possible to not actually say much?


example question number one


We don't think recruiting random people is healthy for a guild. Rewards are never going to be a substitute for strong social ties. We really encourage as many people as possible to seek out guilds (and we hope the new Guild Finder will help with that), but joining a guild at random will likely end in tears.



ok...well, thats what many level 25 guilds did. if you dont think its healthy why did you create a system that encourages it?

but you failed to actually answer the question. are you or are you not going to address the issue that small guilds get discriminated against simply because they are small and that a bigger guild has the advantage of better perks thus is going to benefit in the recruitment department. are you aware that your current system discriminates against smaller guilds and do you care at all and what are you going to do to address it?

could you perhaps ask the devs this question again see if we can get an addition to this answer that actually answers the question?


I am in 2 lvl 25 guilds and we have a strict recruitment policy involving applications on our website in both. Also of all the lvl 25 guilds I know of only one was able to do it without requiring applications.
If you recruit random people into a guild with trade chat they are unlikely to be interested in helping to progress your guild, and will most likely leave as soon as someone posts a better advertisement.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
4335
Small guilds do fine if they have active players. We have less than 20 players and have reached level 19 as of this post, and that was with two of our most active levelers leaving before cataclysm. You recruit quality people by conducting yourself in a friendly manner with everyone during the game, if people enjoy your company and the way you play the game, they will want to join your guild. If they leave because of your guild level then they probably aren't the kind of reliable person you want in your guild anyway.

If you are concerned with the GM kicking you out en masse at level 25 then it sounds to me like you joined a guild for the perks and not because you had a rapport with the players.

The biggest issue with the guild system and how it affects smaller guilds is the large number of items required for guild achievements for example; 10,000 fish for the fish feast, or 1000 flasks for the cauldron, or The "Stay Classy" achievement. There are others as well that will take our guild years to reach in our current state.


Totally Agree with all that!

Some of those guild achievements are extremely difficult for a guild with 500+ members to reach, so will be nearly impossible for smaller guilds to do.
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