Ask The Devs #6: Guild Advancement (Answers)

85 Human Death Knight
5830
i have a small guild of 7 people which i enjoy we all get along just fine and have a good time playing. we hit guild lvl 4 a week ago. some of us do dungens while others do pvp. most of us have multiple toons i have ten lol ( hoping it will help in pvp) while it takes longer to gain guild levels when your small i'd rather have less guild perks and a guild where there is no drama cause i will drop anyone who causes trouble i paid for all 5 guild tabs as well as guild so i'll determine who stays or goes. i'll listen to what others say but i have the last word they know this at the start so no trouble from anyone.it would be nice toget to friedly a little faster when working your alts but once again i'd rather have a guild where we get along helping lvl toons and professions. if you join a guild just for perks you will risk being thrown aside later on so find one that suits your play
Reply Quote
85 Human Hunter
2685
I'm very happy with these answers myself. I have a small guild and have been able to recruit a few new people recently with the guild recruiter option. Also, I really like the guild challenges that are there now. Once we have enough people we're going to do them.

I really like having a smaller guild, and lvling it is taking some time, but I think it will really be worth it once we finally gain a perk. :D
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
12415
Q: Are we going to see guild houses someday so we could finally get a special gather place for the guild, to meet and interact easily? – Ellidryl[Europe, French], Греланд[Europe, Russian], Ledieri [Europe, Spanish], Bodywreckér [North America]

A: Guild housing is something we have discussed many times. It would be neat to have a place for people to hang out, but every time it has come up as a possibility we don't think that is worth the amount of time and resources it would take to implement (and do it right). This is one of those features where if we ever decided to do it, the benefit would have to outweigh other content we could be working on. Also, we don't feel that we need any new ways for players to hide themselves away. If possible we at least like people to be hanging around in the cities, if not out in the world. We know that many guilds, despite lack of official guild housing, have designated meeting locations throughout the world, which we think is really cool. If you don't have one yet it might be something to explore.


Pity. Truly a pity.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
13355
04/27/2011 04:45 PMPosted by Clintbarton
I've got to say some things, and yes, I have to say them on a level 15 alt, because they're... well... inflammatory. And they've already been said.... but the QQ motivates me.

OK, well I'll respond on my 85 since I don't share your fear. You tried to oversimplify many different points of view and ended up being a boob instead of inflammatory.

04/27/2011 04:45 PMPosted by Clintbarton
General Electric will always get the better recruits over the local electronics repair place due to RESOURCES (IE: Perks). So when you're crying that small guilds don't get the same recruiting benefits and perks of a large guild, you're just stating the obvious. Before this system it was the same.

What? No it wasn't. Before you would not get +% honor, rep, experience simply because you were in a guild. That was a completely individual perk gained through BoA heirloom gear at a cost that affected the individual and no other player.

Now, if you want to make your analogy accurate then you need to put in the benefits afforded to the biggies that make them competitive AND aren't available to the smalls and are completely out of their power to attain. You know, things like governmental tax breaks afforded to GE because of its size (because it's not effective for mom-and-pop? Ya...) AND you want to put in the bond sales guaranteed by local taxpayers to create the infrastructure needed for GE, and in some cases bring in Eminent Domain to kick some pesky homeowners out for development... But why are we bringing in analogies like this to guild advancement? Let's not go off into irrelevance here.

04/27/2011 04:45 PMPosted by Clintbarton
Because before that was the way the world worked and it made sense. Now? Now you can rail against the man, and say the system's broken. But really, HONESTLY it's not.

I see your opinion of other's opinions. And I haven't heard 'the man' in a long while. Thanks for that blast from the past! And now here's my opinion on your opinion! :D

04/27/2011 04:45 PMPosted by Clintbarton
A working capitalist economy? Larger rewards for the more active players? "Favoring" those that amass large groups of people behind their banner? This isn't a Marxist system of perfect equality. It's very much a feudal system with capitalist leanings. Which means it's not equality of position, but equality of opportunity.

This is outright silly. World of Warcraft is a game. It is not an economic or social or political ideal of any sort. So take that stuff to your political science class. There is a very valid argument going on between Blizzard and the people who say Blizzard has introduced a social carrot to the player population that will eventually favor a specific kind of guild over all others unless they widen their scope. This quote takes that and goes waaaaaay out of context.

04/27/2011 04:45 PMPosted by Clintbarton
Big guilds get perks faster and easier. Small guilds do not. It's the way the world (Of Warcraft) works.

I don't think many guild leaders really care what big guild X can do over theirs. They want a tool to motivate people to join theirs for the right reasons and also to help them retain their guild members in a positive way. The guild advancement system put into place now does none of that. It passively favors large PvE guilds strictly because of the perks, does not look to PvP players, RP players, in fact any other guild player than the leveler, grinder or raider. That's an added burden now that did not exist before. A simple widening of scope is needed.

And...
04/27/2011 04:45 PMPosted by Clintbarton
Just deal with it.

A take-it-or-leave strategy is not smart in the recreation business (Yes, we're now discussing the real world). From the start of this implementation and through all of these changes the system didn't hit its intended mark. It did not make guilds feel more like "guilds". It added a timer, based on size, that hands a group of individuals perks for sharing the same chat channel. A smart business strategy would be to open this up to a dialog between Blizzard and us to come up with something that can work for both them and the guilds.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
10660
Well I was thinking about the keeping a certain level of guild rep. My old guild had a terrible rep of kicking people and im thinking if that happens again(im sure it wont) i would love to have the same rep since guild rep grinding takes forever
Reply Quote
What I got out of this.

Big mass recruit guilds will continue to reap the perks.

Small family/friends guilds will still reach level cap shortly before the next xpac.
Reply Quote
Ask the Devs #6: Concise Version

Q: Could you help out small guilds? Everyone just joins the big ones for the perks.
A: Nah, it's fine.

Q: How about helping small guilds level faster?
A: Guild Challenges will fix it.

Q: What about guild leaders booting everyone at 25?
A: That's your problem.

Q: Guild housing? Please?
A: No. Stop asking.

Q: Daily caps for guild XP?
A: Nah, it's fine.

Q: More guild XP/rep at low levels?
A: Okay, fine.

Q: Help! My guild got hacked!
A: Write a ticket and pray.

Q: Uh, some of us don't really look at guilds the same way you do...
A: Too bad, conform.

Q: Repping up alts is a nightmare!
A: Just buy a tabard.

Q: We're a huge guild that's already hit level cap! We want more stuff!
A: Too ba... Wait, did you say you're a large guild? Absolutely! Have more stuff!

Bingo
Reply Quote
- Time to face fact Blizz, people are not sentimental through a virtual game. If they can be ina level 25 guild vs. a level 5 guild then 99% of them will join the 25 guild every day of the week. Your system is built completely around LARGE guilds. Guilds that lack organization and skill yet they have 500 members so they just get more and more ppl everyday b.c they want the level 25 perks. Riddle me this....i was recruiting for my guild and got a pst saying oh what level is ur guild i said oh were level 6 growing fast, we got over 50 85s do premades raids, blah blah blah blah, as soon as he saw level 6 he said oh no thnx my guild is level 25 im revered and i really cant go down in level. I said then why did u ask for info about my guild. THIS IS JUST BEYOND ME.."he replies, well my guild is completely dead we have like 20 members left and we dont do anything but still the guild is level 25 so..."

- That was my breaking point, this system has come to the point and it has honestly defeated the purpose of a guild. No more are guilds wanted by a great skillfull community or funny laidback friendly leveling guild. Now its ALL guild level.

- "We dont like to have guilds inviting randoms to join their guilds."
Im sorry but your whole new guild system completely endorses this 100% whether u like it or not.

yup yup yup
Reply Quote
85 Troll Hunter
3055
My question is just why you want everyone in guilds? What problem is this covering up or are you hoping it will magically fix?
Reply Quote
85 Human Death Knight
6655
Well I'd like to add something to the discussion of the effect of guild levels on small guilds.
My guild in wrath was small but we had most of a 10 man raid roster and raided ICC every week. A small guild of friends who had fun doing what we were doing, a guild that has been since BC.

Come Cataclysm effectively all but myself left for larger guilds. I actually queried every single member who left as to why they left and they left for a large guild to get more perks. So now a guild I made to be just a small guild of friends where drama was absent and we could raid as we pleased is now just my bank guild. The others have more drama, are not as happy and are more stressed raiding now but are mesmerized by the perks.

So guild perks haven't helped my guild, they killed it.
And no, I'm not about to start recruiting random strangers just to have people around. I'd rather just be alone in my empty guild, at least it's honest. Perhaps the PUG raiding scene will pick up again in the future.
Reply Quote
30 Draenei Mage
330
05/17/2011 01:48 AMPosted by Shinokami
My question is just why you want everyone in guilds? What problem is this covering up or are you hoping it will magically fix?
Why bother being in a guild at all? Prior to the introduction of guild leveling and perks (A popular aspect of most f2p games... -twitches- ) there was no reason aside from a world wide social hub of select individuals. In other words... A self declared "Cool Kid's Club". You generally only joined a guild if you wanted to raid. And there are some communities and servers that even removed that reason with their open source raiding systems. (LeftOvers on Silver Hand, I'm looking at you!)

First, they introduced guild banks which caused a massive rise of personal storage guilds. (I'm guilty...)

Now they've introduced a leveling system with perks to joining and staying in the guild. (A nifty feature, but not really game breaking except for ye olde mount and companion collector...)

My main's guild is small, and I will admit that recruitment is a pain in the tail with all these 20+ guild constantly recruiting and promising 'standby raid slots' and cookies. People want to raid. They want to level their alts or newly created character 15%-20% faster. They want to earn honor 15-20% faster. They want to be part of the "Cool Kid's Club" and often they will put up with jerks to do so.

I strongly disagree with the Blues. You'd be surprised how much crap someone would put up with to be in an active raiding group prior to the guild leveling feature. And now, people who have to put up with jerky guilds have a reason to stick it out and stay instead of finally moving to a guild of friends. (The mini pet, the mounts, the BoA items, etc).
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Paladin
8680
05/12/2011 05:44 PMPosted by Jaxlionheart
<strong/>Come on Blizz, Runescape had player houses years ago. In light of that fact, there should definatly be guild houses maybe set up on a portal system. One portal but it will take you to your guilds guild house. I think in truth, this would add alot more appeal to this game. Players can meet in their respective guild houses make plans, meetings,rp and etc. It would also be really cool to create "pass" items that the gm's could give to people to invite them to their guild house allowing multiple guild rp events. Don't let me down Blizzard!
Guild Halls would not add any appeal to the game. They would give the 'cyber' crew a place to do their business without being caught. You've not mentioned anything that would give Guild Halls any appeal except from the thought of seclusion. If you want that, simply turn off all the unwanted channels and pick a designated spot for your guild. (The cave just outside of the Wailing Cavern's portal is quite lovely for instance.)

Afraid people will ruin your event? The @*#@#%#s can be put on ignore, and you never know when a 3rd party or RP crasher actually adds to the flavor of the role-play and things turn out wonderfully well. (I.E. they like to role-play but weren't invited. Their persistence pays off and you give in and they turn out to be willing to be the third wheel that no one wanted to play because it was a two bit part.)

Yes, I loved bases in City of Heroes. I actually made my money by designing bases for some of the larger SGs on my server. (And got a few recruits in my SG because of how mine looked, even though it was ever the small base.) And the player housing is the reason I keep my EQII subscription live. But as you've noticed neither of these games come anywhere near the radar when compared to World of Warcraft. These features are unlikely to draw in enough new subscriptions to justify the work necessary for what is probably a small demand. (Yes, yes. I've seen the posts. But only a fraction of the wow base actually posts and so it's not an accurate head count.)

What do I want? I want to be able to accept a request without said person having to be online. >:|
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
8925
04/27/2011 02:00 PMPosted by Bogoran


Really? So if you got a 10% raise at work, would that not make a material difference in your quality of life? 10% is a HUGE benefit, my any calculation, and in the case of guild perks, the benefits are multifaceted. You get 10% more honor from BGs, 10% faster mount speed, 5% more justice points, 15% more resources from tradeskill farming, 20% less durability when you die, and 10% raw cash.

The additive benefit of all these perks is HUGE, and it's an absurd position to suggest otherwise. As for the suggestion that these perks only 'shorten grind time', when you take away the grind from WoW, there's not much left.


In real life, would you give up your preferred social circle for a 10% raise in salary?


Ask this question of any parents that have picked up roots and moved from their rural hometown to a larger city to get higher paying jobs with better benefits so they could afford to send their kids to college.

Maybe you haven't heard of this thing called a 'recession'. I know of several people personally IRL that would lie, cheat, steal, move house, divorce their spouse and possibly even give up one of their children to social services for a 10% increase in salary.

In short Marie Antoinette, remove head from sphincter and report back to planet Earth for orientation. That is all.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
8850
Regarding the question "Q: Are you planning to address the issue of Guild Leaders mass kicking members, once the guild reaches level 25? – Bloodbliss [North America], Юхани [Europe, Russian] "

I think another way to prevent this from happening is to replace guild xp with guild renown. Renown can work in the exact same fashion as guild xp, however a part of that renown comes from each players contributions. Therefore, if the player is kicked out of the guild by the guild master, that players portion of the renown goes with him/her with the next guild that he joins. But if the player quits, then that renown can be left with the guild.
Reply Quote
86 Human Paladin
7700
Will we ever be able to rename our guild?
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Mage
0
Ask the Devs #6: Concise Version

Q: Could you help out small guilds? Everyone just joins the big ones for the perks.
A: Nah, it's fine.

Q: How about helping small guilds level faster?
A: Guild Challenges will fix it.

Q: What about guild leaders booting everyone at 25?
A: That's your problem.

Q: Guild housing? Please?
A: No. Stop asking.

Q: Daily caps for guild XP?
A: Nah, it's fine.

Q: More guild XP/rep at low levels?
A: Okay, fine.

Q: Help! My guild got hacked!
A: Write a ticket and pray.

Q: Uh, some of us don't really look at guilds the same way you do...
A: Too bad, conform.

Q: Repping up alts is a nightmare!
A: Just buy a tabard.

Q: We're a huge guild that's already hit level cap! We want more stuff!
A: Too ba... Wait, did you say you're a large guild? Absolutely! Have more stuff!



LOL, I laughed hard at this. Pretty much spot on, really. =P

I agree that level 25 Guilds should still get rewards and changes etc which keeps the ball rolling, But I do also think that smaller Guilds that are quite low in the levels should get some kind of boost or help.
Looking at the guilds around, even I myself who's in a smaller Guild that has just started, notices how enticing the pull of a larger guild is with all their members, perks etc rather than a smaller Guild who has not that many people and not even level 10 yet.. The appeal just isn't there. And that seems to be the problem, especially with those who have leveled before or want a largely social Guild, Big guilds seem to be the way to go. Everything is faster, bigger, better looking and these days - that's all that people want. Not the satisfaction of helping a Guild rise up in levels and numbers.. but to have those levels and numbers already there when they arrive.
But I can also see that, if Blizz do try and help the lower guilds, I'm sure the 'that's unfair' complaints from many others who aren't feeling the strain of being in one of those smaller, seemingly going no where Guilds, would start pouring in =P Can't win, really lol.



Here's a thought, (Although, I think bringing in anything decent to help now would cause more problems than it would probably solve) considering that the daily cap is there to help regulate how fast guilds can level, and was meant to help keep them all leveling at a relatively even pace, which obviously doesn't work so well when large Guilds are going to reach the daily cap when smaller guilds will be lucky too.. That Blizz should have brought out a system (obviously lol =P) where maybe (just a quick random thought lol) for every player who joins the guild, the xp needed to level goes up by a certain amount. So that the XP needed for a level is determined by the player base ratio of that Guild. So if you have 20 players in your Guild, or 800, the XP needed to level for each Guild is increased or decreased by the amount of players. Though that could lead to maybe smaller guilds wanting to stay smaller guilds and larger guilds kicking people out.. but they wouldn't be gaining as the XP differences would change around. So ideally it would just make a large guild have as much trouble leveling as a small guild would really lol and possibly keep it slightly more even when it comes to reaching those daily caps, and even encouraging players to join lower leveled/members Guilds as a largely populated guild has the illusion that it may take too long for their personal liking.
Edited by Merci on 5/18/2011 6:00 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
6695
I run a currently level 7 guild with 80 members(probably 60 if you exclude people's alts) and I have been recruiting feverishly, I have a post on the guild finder. I spam a recruiting macro in trade, spam is the wrong word for it, because I try not to be a nuisance. All I get is crickets if i state the level of the guild, or I get an Alt from a bigger guild trying to pry away any active 85's that are on for his raid team. He does his recruiting then leaves, successful or not. The reason I know this is because I invited him while on a lower level alt so he didn't know I was GM, that was low rent but it's happening.

The point I'm making is that it's downright freak'n impossible. I'm reading the answers and I'm thinking are you playing the same game I am? I recruited before this change and it was a lot easier all guilds were on a level playing field if you had a GM that cared, good people, fully tabbed GB you were good. Now people just go for the highest perk bidder. Dev's make it sound like everyone knows a hundred loyal people so it's all good. In reality your lucky to have 20-25 active loyal people that care everyone else are strangers that you hope you can charm.

I suggest that the Dev's start a new guild and try to get 10 sigs, probably will have to pay for sigs now a days, then honestly report how long it takes them to get 30 members and level 3 or 5.

Am I missing something? Anybody got recruiting suggestions?
Edited by Mortesagrada on 5/18/2011 8:49 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
6695
Oh and one more thing, I'm not concerned that guild A has more perks than me, that I don't have this perk or that perk. I just want to be able to progress my guild into raiding by recruiting some people I can stand with, that care about the guild that they're in. I want to have fun, but we'll never get there with 10 people of various levels online at any one point. People want to have fun and want the path of least resistance in a game that comes second to a wife, a child, and a job, so yeah they are going to where the perks make that easier.

Nobody wants my lame level 7 guild when they can join a level 14 that's recruiting as hard as me. You know how many times I will spam my guild, and not two seconds later some level 15 Jokers spam theirs and moves mine off the screen
Edited by Mortesagrada on 5/18/2011 8:47 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
6695
I could spam invites all day to just get more members so my guild can level faster. The faster it levels the more people will come for the perks. After I hit lvl25, I can kick whomever I please or sell the guild.

I could also, create a guild with a specific goal, try to individually recruit players who want that same goal. Listen to them decline because their mega guild that does absolutely nothing except farm XP has X amount of perks compared to my lvl 1 guild. /gdisband and then join a lvl 25 guild that I hate just like everyone else.


The sytem isn't really flawed, it's the people. I get that. But Blizzard should see where this is heading. The best solution I see is to make guild perks based off actual guild rep and take away the guild levels. That way a person can earn the rep based on actual contribution instead of only joining big guilds

Also, those in small guilds can still benefit from being loyal to their friends. Easy fix. No one loses....Well no one except the people who want the perks but don't want to put in any work for it.

right on. You hit it on the head the problem here is that people want the easy perk. Nobody wants to work for it they want it bestowed upon them because they are there by the grace of God. The perks stripped the game of base loyalty the only people that stay to help build your guild are the ones that you have ties to. Good Luck attracting and keeping some one new to go from a heroic running guild to 10 to 25
Edited by Mortesagrada on 5/18/2011 9:15 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]