Ask The Devs #6: Guild Advancement (Answers)

90 Troll Druid
11775
04/27/2011 10:20 AMPosted by Kaivax
A great example is the guild reward we intend to add in patch 4.2 for guilds that obtain the new legendary staff.


Any more info on what this reward is?
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65 Worgen Druid
1330
Roleplayers like mounts, pets, Heirlooms, and banners to you know. Chests and such also give us added effects.
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55 Draenei Hunter
1050
[bQ: Why isn't guild XP from quests a factor of character level, quest difficulty, and intended quest level, instead of being derived directly from XP gained? Why is guild reputation so hard to gain before level 70? It feels as though it's harder to gain reputation with your guild at the beginning and easier as you gain levels; shouldn't it be the other way around? – Atun [North America], Threshold [Europe, English], Helíana [Latin America]

    A: The experience gained from a quest is directly related to all of these factors, which is why we use it as a basis to reward guild experience. Clearly this value is much smaller at lower levels and we know that this does not feel great with the current tuning. We're going to tune the XP multiplier for doing lower level quests so it doesn't feel like such a waste. Guild reputation suffers from this same multiplier issue too, and when we tune the experience the rep gain will be improved as well. Rep gain will also be much improved though in patch 4.1 with the introduction of the new guild tabards, and increased values on clearing dungeons, raids and winning arenas and battlegrounds.



Can you provide us with a rough ETA on this? Is this a 4.2 proposed change or earlier? Also, will there be a retroactive adjustment?

Edited by Charax on 4/27/2011 11:43 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11470
04/27/2011 10:20 AMPosted by Kaivax
Guilds at level 25 also get the benefit of large gold deposits for completing Guild Challenges.


I think maybe you need to examine your definitions for large and significant with regards to gold. When the amount of gold rewarded by the raid guild challenge is not enough to purchase one maelstrom crystal from the auction house, that it not large or significant.

I get that the gold rewards are probably what they are so you aren't just dumping large amounts of gold into server economies, but don't pretend that small amounts are anything but.
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85 Undead Rogue
10520
    A: We knew when we decided to add guild features for Cataclysm that this was one of the risks. If the guild perks and rewards aren't interesting, then there is no motivation to join a guild or work to improve your guild. On the other hand if they are too powerful, then you feel shackled to your old guild, even if it's not a healthy relationship for you. We were careful to only choose perks that didn't contribute to player power, and we let you keep any rewards you earn if you ever have to leave your guild. The perks are nice, no doubt, but you're going to have less fun in an established guild of jerks than you would starting your own guild with fewer perks.

    We don't think recruiting random people is healthy for a guild. Rewards are never going to be a substitute for strong social ties. We really encourage as many people as possible to seek out guilds (and we hope the new Guild Finder will help with that), but joining a guild at random will likely end in tears.

    On the other hand, there may be some benefit to having less churn on starting guilds. Before Cataclysm, some guilds would get started halfheartedly and then crumble again after a few weeks or months. Maintaining an active guild asks a lot of the guild master and leading officers. If you join an established guild in Cataclysm, hopefully it will continue to be around for awhile. But because of reputation, even brand new guilds may seem like a more serious option than they were before Cataclysm, since the founders of the guild know that anyone interested is likely looking for a long-term home and are not just hopping from guild to guild.


I don't see the idea that a guild is now extremely difficult to create being addressed here. I had to disband my guild because we couldn't even get 10 players.

Why won't the quote show in blue!?
Edited by Blackriver on 4/27/2011 11:45 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
7635

I have an alt in a 4-person guild. With all new characters and before guild challenges, it would have taken us probably 4 or 5 years to reach guild level 2. Not 25, mind you - level 2. With guild challenges, we would have to run a dungeon every day for 8 weeks to get to guild level 2 - so that's 2 months for 1 level, running dungeons every day (or at least 7 times a week).


There is something seriously wrong with your computation. It takes around 16,500k xp to get from level 1 to level2. If each of your 4 members do a dungeon or two together every week and then do some dailies, they should each have no trouble hitting their weekly guild contribution cap. If you all hit your cap each week, you'd get to Level 2 in 3 or 4 weeks, not 3 or 4 years. I'm assuming here you're all level 80+. If on the other hand, your guild is made up of low levels, you might well be a at a virtual stand still until you all start getting up above level 70.

I have seen people level guilds from Level 1 to 2 completely on their own in just a couple of months, so no, it won't take you years to get to level 2.
Edited by Kalorian on 4/27/2011 11:56 AM PDT
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04/27/2011 10:39 AMPosted by Weiland
I'm in a small guild and we don't make our daily cap very often, and based on the tool tip this will award no extra guild xp but extend a the cap by 300000, am I understanding this wrong? Will we get 300000guild xp or will it just raise our daily cap?

Yes, you're understanding it wrong. I paid attention yesterday, and your guild DOES gain the 300k xp per dungeon. The tooltip may just be confusing.
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85 Human Warrior
7095
04/27/2011 11:52 AMPosted by Bogoran
I'm in a small guild and we don't make our daily cap very often, and based on the tool tip this will award no extra guild xp but extend a the cap by 300000, am I understanding this wrong? Will we get 300000guild xp or will it just raise our daily cap?

Yes, you're understanding it wrong. I paid attention yesterday, and your guild DOES gain the 300k xp per dungeon. The tooltip may just be confusing.


Thank you for clearing that up for me. getting 300k is a big deal over the pushing the cap higher for the day. +1 to you .
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I think maybe you need to examine your definitions for large and significant with regards to gold. When the amount of gold rewarded by the raid guild challenge is not enough to purchase one maelstrom crystal from the auction house, that it not large or significant.


Have you seen Maelstrom Crystals' price now? After one day of troll dungeons dropping epics, they're under 400g on my server and plummetting. I'm not sure how much gold is given to a level 25 guild since mine isn't there yet, but even the 500g we got from the raid boss challenge last night felt like a nice bonus.
Edited by Bogoran on 4/27/2011 11:55 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
11560
Q: Is there any way to recover a guild which is deliberately disbanded by evil account hacker or lunatic guild leader? – 哇靠不是吧 [Taiwan]

A: The best way to deal with this situation is to immediately contact a World of Warcraft Game Master.


I've seen this type of issue in the Customer Support Forum with players complaining about GMs not being able to restore guilds, or anything in that area.

So advertising, we should immediately contact a GM isn't going to work, unless the Devs updated the GM tools to restore guilds.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
7240
    A: We knew when we decided to add guild features for Cataclysm that this was one of the risks. If the guild perks and rewards aren't interesting, then there is no motivation to join a guild or work to improve your guild. On the other hand if they are too powerful, then you feel shackled to your old guild, even if it's not a healthy relationship for you. We were careful to only choose perks that didn't contribute to player power, and we let you keep any rewards you earn if you ever have to leave your guild. The perks are nice, no doubt, but you're going to have less fun in an established guild of jerks than you would starting your own guild with fewer perks.


With 10% bonuses to justice points, honor, reputation and XP, it's not worth leaving a guild unless I can find one immediately after.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6235
Q: It seems that the new guild system is killing off the Pick Up Group culture in KR. In KR, raids were generally done through PUG and players did not care what kind of guilds they joined for raids. Can we expect more localized guild features to support the unique raid culture of the Korean region? –밥상의달인, Jeran, 블러드베인 [Korea]

We will continue to pay close attention to and work to protect the various in-game cultures in each region. However, we don't have plans to change the structure of the system at this time.


I have to disagree with the original assumption; it's not the new guild system that is killing off PuGs. It has always been the case to save one lockout for the guild your devoted too.

However, the bigger issue is that there is only one lock out now for 10/25 man normal/hard mode. Obviously, you will save this one lockout for your progression guild, but there is no longer the secondary free lock out to run PuGs or join PuGs.

This creates a huge gap between the elitist doing hard modes, and the casual stuck in dungeons.

Bring back secondary lock outs if you want PuGs to live again, or allow characters to re run raids without rewards. I, for one, am mostly geared; but would be more than willing to help tank/lead PuGs if there wasn't suck a huge risk as wasting my one lockout.

P.S. Difficulty is not an issue either, just need experienced players to mentor the newbies through experience. Shouldn't be rich getting richer, poor getting poorer.
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90 Tauren Druid
16030
Ask the Devs #6: Concise Version

Q: Could you help out small guilds? Everyone just joins the big ones for the perks.
A: Nah, it's fine.

Q: How about helping small guilds level faster?
A: Guild Challenges will fix it.

Q: What about guild leaders booting everyone at 25?
A: That's your problem.

Q: Guild housing? Please?
A: No. Stop asking.

Q: Daily caps for guild XP?
A: Nah, it's fine.

Q: More guild XP/rep at low levels?
A: Okay, fine.

Q: Help! My guild got hacked!
A: Write a ticket and pray.

Q: Uh, some of us don't really look at guilds the same way you do...
A: Too bad, conform.

Q: Repping up alts is a nightmare!
A: Just buy a tabard.

Q: We're a huge guild that's already hit level cap! We want more stuff!
A: Too ba... Wait, did you say you're a large guild? Absolutely! Have more stuff!
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80 Night Elf Druid
3220
" Q: Leveling guild speed varies depending on the amount of players ...
A: Guild Challenges coming in patch 4.1 are designed to help address this issue."

How? It cannot help this issue.

More people directly gives more possible participants to attempt the challenges, thus they also will favor larger guilds.

Maybe you mean "they will offer more opportunities for interesting acitivies that advance guild rank", which I believe, but your statement is necessarily false in the context of the question.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
3700
04/27/2011 10:20 AMPosted by Kaivax
But because of reputation, even brand new guilds may seem like a more serious option than they were before Cataclysm, since the founders of the guild know that anyone interested is likely looking for a long-term home and are not just hopping from guild to guild.


this isnt the case at all. I run a pvp guild that is far behind on levels (one of the oldest remaining on my realm though) due to pvp activity not giving any EXP for so long (idk why you had to wait until 4.1 instead of jsut making this a hotfix, its really screwed my guild over...), and some of my best wow friends leave for higher level guilds because they are gaining more there and the rep isnt a big deal to most people. Its frustrating that a system intented to keep players in guilds is now luring players, even my best friends, to other guilds that have more perks to offer because they arent a full pvp guild.
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Q: Why isn't guild XP from quests a factor of character level, quest difficulty, and intended quest level, instead of being derived directly from XP gained? Why is guild reputation so hard to gain before level 70? It feels as though it's harder to gain reputation with your guild at the beginning and easier as you gain levels; shouldn't it be the other way around? – Atun [North America], Threshold [Europe, English], Helíana [Latin America]

A: The experience gained from a quest is directly related to all of these factors, which is why we use it as a basis to reward guild experience. Clearly this value is much smaller at lower levels and we know that this does not feel great with the current tuning. We're going to tune the XP multiplier for doing lower level quests so it doesn't feel like such a waste. Guild reputation suffers from this same multiplier issue too, and when we tune the experience the rep gain will be improved as well. Rep gain will also be much improved though in patch 4.1 with the introduction of the new guild tabards, and increased values on clearing dungeons, raids and winning arenas and battlegrounds.


I'm just annoyed that I can level a toon from 1 - 85 in the same guild and not even break neutral with them.

I mean, why can't the character that goes form 1 - 85 in the same guild be at least half way through honored by the time they hit 85, or even revered? The amount of rep awarded to low level characters is borderline absurd, it takes me 40 levels at best to get exalted with a neutral faction, yet 85 levels of loyalty are not enough for my low level alt to get a good standing with my guild?

It is also sad that making a guild form scratch with only low level players to level together provides no benefit. The guild should at least level along with the members so if they all hit 85 as a cohesive guild their efforts should be rewarded with a level 10 or 12 guild. it's like all the questing, dungeon running, farming and crafting they did on their way to 85 was pointless for themselves.
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