Ask The Devs #6: Guild Advancement (Answers)

15 Night Elf Hunter
100
@ Grimmloch

ROFL, you just gave me the perfect way to respond without quoting. I appreciate it, but I think that the real reason so many people get SO emotionally invested in forum posts about how broken the Guild Leveling system is is because they don't stop to think about WHY it's set up the way it is. Not to punish small guilds, and not to reward big Mega-guilds. The ONLY reason it exists is because Blizz wanted to give more emphasis and added flavor to guilds. When they say it's not OP, they have no intention of saying it doesn't help. It just doesn't mean that a well built raid team in a 500+ member guild has any better chance at downing X boss than a well-built raid team in a 10 or 25 man guild, it just means their alts or non raiding friends will have an easier time of it (and get to feel like they contribute).
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85 Human Mage
11895
Guilds are fine. L2 Guild.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
13165
I wish the concept of guild mergers had been revisited. That got a passing comment over on the Achievement/Guild forum, and nothing has been said since. A lot of questions though.
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90 Troll Shaman
15135
04/27/2011 11:08 AMPosted by Faline
We don't think recruiting random people is healthy for a guild



isn't that what your gonna do with the guild finder anyway? find a random guild with the highest lvl?
Edited by Masq on 4/27/2011 8:08 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
13165
04/27/2011 04:37 PMPosted by Bogoran

In my real life, there's more than a few people who have moved to bigger cities for the better education and employment opportunities.

I like my vanity guild, but I'm missing out on a lot of perks and rewards by staying in it instead of joining a rank 25 guild, and some of those are significant.


Absolutely, but that's kind of outside the scope of this particular analogy. In wow you aren't gaining experience or education, you're just getting around 10% more stuff (or the same stuff 10% faster). In fact, I think social relationships in the game that you would give up for perks are more akin to the education and opportunities you bring up than the perks themselves are.

And the fact that even though the perks are significant you don't find them to be worth changing the vanity tag above your head supports my argument that the perks are not overly powerful or mandatory.


Gee, in real life people change jobs all the time for 10%. Just FYI.
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90 Troll Shaman
15135
04/27/2011 07:53 PMPosted by Strykt
Guilds are fine. L2 Guild.




troll post that is outdated and unoriginal.. l2 troll
Edited by Masq on 4/27/2011 8:09 PM PDT
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15 Night Elf Hunter
100
04/27/2011 08:40 PMPosted by Reiterei
isn't that what your gonna do with the guild finder anyway? find a random guild with the highest lvl?


Exactly! There is a huge disconnect with what Blizz says they aim for and actuality.


Sorry to keep disagreeing, but the Guild Finder COULD be used to track down the highest guild that will have you, but given that it allows personal descriptions, it also COULD be used to find a guild that seems like a good fit, much like having a conversation with an officer before joining (tho much more limited... tho you could ACTUALLY message an officer before you submit a request to join).

Just because a good tool that gives better basic info in lieu of 10 minutes of typed questions CAN be used to min-max, doesn't mean that it always will be. Again, it's a choice of big-guild vs small, the independent vs the shark. I'm fairly certain Blizz would like to make a couple of improvements to it, but it's probably working EXACTLY as intended.
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58 Worgen Death Knight
110
The system does not discriminate against smaller guilds, the players do.

What is the value of joining your small guild? If the value > than the value of joining a big guild, people will join.

It's not a problem with the system.
This is what the entire "problem" boils down to.

People looking to latch on to the highest guild level aren't the ones you want to keep around.


Our guild recently closed open application for this very reason-we were the realm first 25 guild (And we didn't even need to mass recruit for it-that just reeks of inviting trouble) and now that we're 25, we don't want people joining just to latch on to rewards-we want people who can contribute to the Guild.


And we get along just fine. The system gives us perks, and we moderate what players come in and out, and we get the best of both worlds-a functionng guild that isn't riddled with worker bees and one with perks as well.


People are the problem, not the system. Stick to a guild you can work with, and make it work for you. Blizzard even stated in this very Q&A that they feel Smaller guilds aren't getting enough love.


Honestly, I'm supprised they even bother with these Q&As when all the forums does is *!%@# and complain that they aren't the answers they wanted. Tough titty-you can't hack it? Then go and pack it.
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85 Dwarf Hunter
1820
A: This is one of the main reasons 4.1 has new guild tabards with 50/100% bonus to rep. We made sure to place these at friendly and honored so they would be easy to obtain by alts.


Really? Have you tried to level alts in a guild? It can take forever just to get to friendly. Maybe you don't want to provide tabards as a way to fix that-- but something needs to be done.
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Absolutely, but that's kind of outside the scope of this particular analogy. In wow you aren't gaining experience or education, you're just getting around 10% more stuff (or the same stuff 10% faster). In fact, I think social relationships in the game that you would give up for perks are more akin to the education and opportunities you bring up than the perks themselves are.

And the fact that even though the perks are significant you don't find them to be worth changing the vanity tag above your head supports my argument that the perks are not overly powerful or mandatory.


Gee, in real life people change jobs all the time for 10%. Just FYI.


So many "FYI's" that aren't related to the point. :p I wasn't even talking about changing jobs. I was asking which you would choose in real life if you could give up your personal social circle for a 10% raise. Because that's the equivalent of what people are doing in game, and it baffles me.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16610
I've found interesting or useful most of the other dev Q&A's, but this one particularly disappointed me. It's also the first one I actually went out of my way to ask questions about, so a lot of that'll just be because it's an issue that hits close to home at present.

I see a topic about "Guild Advancement" and I interpret that as being about improving guilds. Yet all the topics covered were predictable answers to 1-25 levelling questions, with the old diehard on guild housing thrown in.

A guild is so much more than just a bunch of people who've attained a certain level.

This is a game that revolves around its community. Bliz tries to talk to the player-base as individuals, but it seems like there's a real difficulty interacting with the player-base as community groups (aka guilds). Turning guilds into a group-activity version of levelling a character isn't a horrible start by any means, but the entire focus of this discussion on "Guild Advancement" neglects any other forms of community building & advancement.

As the first player written stickie in the guild/raid leadership forum makes clear: "While Blizzard employees maintain a presence here they have historically limited their interactions to forum administration and moderation."

Possibly I was getting my hopes up too much that Blizzard would break the history of non-involvement at a group level to talk about their thoughts/opinions on non-game-mechanic guild advancement.

But regardless, this topic has left me very disappointed.

Trying to run a good, fun, active & non-profit community group is hard work. At present we're going through the standard summertime + pre-new-content blues, and at times like these the feeling of being neglected & ignored by Bliz doesn't help. Without players who actively try to form & support community groups, the game would gradually falter no matter how good it is otherwise. It'd be nice to feel like Bliz is supporting those people who help organise & motivate the subsections of their overall gaming community.
Edited by Lakhesís on 4/28/2011 1:44 AM PDT
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