Anyone having time machine problems ?

89 Goblin Rogue
2490
After the patch, Time Machine has repeatedly been doing 15 GB backups on my system. Has anyone else seen this?
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85 Goblin Shaman
3125
Actually yes, last night Time Machine couldnt back up because all of a suddent my content had reached more than 1TB....wtf??
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MVP - Technical Support
90 Draenei Mage
6490
Odd error.

Are you sure it's actually gotten bigger ? TM works using hard links to changed data so if you're looking just at the folders on your back up hard drive in the finder it's not going to have how much room its now taking up. You need to look in the Time Machine preference pane in System Preferences.

Try adding the Data folder in the Wow folder to the Time machine exclusions in the Time Machine preference pane in System Preferences.

Also consider making a manual backup just of that folder in the wow folder.
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89 Goblin Rogue
2490
Every time I run WoW, the next time Time Machine starts up, it does a 15GB backup. It did not do this before patch 4.1.

I am not looking at the folders on the time capsule disk, I am looking at what Time Machine itself is telling me. Right now it is at "Backing up: 2.47GB of 15.18GB".
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MVP - Technical Support
90 Draenei Mage
6490
I am not looking at the folders on the time capsule disk, I am looking at what Time Machine itself is telling me. Right now it is at "Backing up: 2.47GB of 15.18GB".


*frowny face* (at silly TM bug not you : ) )

Try adding the Data folder in the Wow folder to the Time machine exclusions in the Time Machine preference pane in System Preferences.

Then start up wow again.
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Edited by Bluspacecow on 4/27/2011 2:14 PM PDT
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It's not a Time Machine bug - it's just doing what it's been told to - backup up files whose datetime-stamp have changed since the last time. It's my guess that the Launcher, when it's checking on updates, is touching all the data files as it goes. Time Machine comes along and sees that they've appeared to have changed and says, "Oh goody - someone's given me some work to do."

Overnight (from midnight to about 8:30am) I didn't run WoW. At about 8:35 I fired off the WoW launcher without running the game itself. At 8:41 it spent about forty minutes backing up the following (from timedog):

177B-> 180B /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/WoW.mfil
3.0GB-> 3.0GB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/art.MPQ
1.3GB-> 1.3GB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/expansion1.MPQ
2.5GB-> 2.5GB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/expansion2.MPQ
632.3MB-> 632.3MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/expansion3.MPQ
1.3GB-> 1.3GB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/sound.MPQ
2.4GB-> 2.4GB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/world.MPQ
457.8MB-> 457.8MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/wow-update-13164.MPQ
8.6KB-> 8.6KB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/wow-update-13205.MPQ
317.9MB-> 317.9MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/wow-update-13287.MPQ
151.9MB-> 151.9MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/wow-update-13329.MPQ
141.2MB-> 141.2MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/wow-update-13596.MPQ
11.3KB-> 11.3KB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/wow-update-13623.MPQ
280.0MB-> 280.0MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/wow-update-base-13914.MPQ
38.5MB-> 38.5MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/Goblin_1280.avi
24.9MB-> 24.9MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/Goblin_800.avi
66.3MB-> 66.3MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_Intro_LK_1280.avi
42.7MB-> 42.7MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_Intro_LK_800.avi
98.7MB-> 98.7MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_Wrathgate_1280.avi
63.8MB-> 63.8MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_Wrathgate_800.avi
54.5MB-> 54.5MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/WoW3X_Intro_1280.avi
35.2MB-> 35.2MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/WoW3X_Intro_800.avi
37.3MB-> 37.3MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/Worgen_1280.avi
24.2MB-> 24.2MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/Worgen_800.avi
486.2MB-> 486.2MB [10] /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/Interface/Cinematics/
2.7MB-> 2.7MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/expansion1-locale-enUS.MPQ
42.0MB-> 42.0MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/expansion1-speech-enUS.MPQ
10.3MB-> 10.3MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/expansion2-locale-enUS.MPQ
116.7MB-> 116.7MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/expansion2-speech-enUS.MPQ
1.0MB-> 1.0MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/expansion3-locale-enUS.MPQ
55.5MB-> 55.5MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/expansion3-speech-enUS.MPQ
355.1MB-> 355.1MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/locale-enUS.MPQ
180.3MB-> 180.3MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/speech-enUS.MPQ
32.0MB-> 32.0MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/wow-update-enUS-13914.MPQ
6.2MB-> 6.2MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Interface/Cinematics/Logo_1024.avi
4.4MB-> 4.4MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Interface/Cinematics/Logo_800.avi
62.9MB-> 62.9MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_FotLK_1024.avi
54.6MB-> 54.6MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_FotLK_800.avi
45.4MB-> 45.4MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_Intro_1024.avi
39.3MB-> 39.3MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_Intro_800.avi
45.4MB-> 45.4MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_Intro_BC_1024.avi
39.4MB-> 39.4MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Interface/Cinematics/WOW_Intro_BC_800.avi
297.5MB-> 297.5MB [8] /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Interface/Cinematics/
399.6KB-> 400.0KB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Logs/Downloader.log
446.6KB-> 447.9KB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Logs/Launcher.log
846.2KB-> 847.9KB [2] /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Logs/
11.3MB-> 11.3MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Updates/wow-12911-13164-OSX-final.MPQ
15.2MB-> 15.2MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Updates/wow-12911-13623-OSX-final.MPQ
1.7MB-> 1.7MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Updates/wow-13164-13205-OSX-final.MPQ
2.1MB-> 2.1MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Updates/wow-13205-13287-OSX-final.MPQ
1.5MB-> 1.5MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Updates/wow-13287-13329-OSX-final.MPQ
2.2MB-> 2.2MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Updates/wow-13329-13596-OSX-final.MPQ
1.3MB-> 1.3MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Updates/wow-13596-13623-OSX-final.MPQ
20.5MB-> 20.5MB /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Updates/wow-13623-13914-OSX-final.MPQ
55.9MB-> 55.9MB [8] /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/Updates/
520B-> 519B /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/WTF/Launcher.WTF
520B-> 519B [1] /Pouakai/Applications/Games/World of Warcraft/WTF/

Some of those are legitimate (log files, of course), but the Updates MPQ that I hadn't got around to purging - not right.

I think as a matter of urgency Blizzard should find out what has changed in the WoW Launcher and fix it.

Kia ora,
Laurie
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MVP - Technical Support
90 Draenei Mage
6490
04/27/2011 02:47 PMPosted by Ising
It's not a Time Machine bug - it's just doing what it's been told to - backup up files whose datetime-stamp have changed since the last time. It's my guess that the Launcher, when it's checking on updates, is touching all the data files as it goes. Time Machine comes along and sees that they've appeared to have changed and says, "Oh goody - someone's given me some work to do."


Opps my bad.

I forgot to ask them if after they let the backup finish if Time Machine does it again.

I assumed they were saying it happened even after finishing the backup.

04/27/2011 02:47 PMPosted by Ising
I think as a matter of urgency Blizzard should find out what has changed in the WoW Launcher and fix it.


What's changed is it now updates every file in the Data folder where previously it did not - it would only put in a new MPQ file in the Data folder and write something to backup-enUS.mpq and base-enUS.mpq

They've come out and admitted they changed in the sticky in the Tech Support forums about the insufficient space error.

04/27/2011 02:47 PMPosted by Ising
Kia ora,


ngenge.

:D
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89 Goblin Rogue
2490


Opps my bad.

I forgot to ask them if after they let the backup finish if Time Machine does it again.

I assumed they were saying it happened even after finishing the backup.



Yes, the backup finishes correctly.

04/27/2011 02:47 PMPosted by Ising
I think as a matter of urgency Blizzard should find out what has changed in the WoW Launcher and fix it.


If I bypass the launcher, and run the game directly, this does not happen.


What's changed is it now updates every file in the Data folder where previously it did not - it would only put in a new MPQ file in the Data folder and write something to backup-enUS.mpq and base-enUS.mpq

They've come out and admitted they changed in the sticky in the Tech Support forums about the insufficient space error.


It really shouldn't be updating these files every single time the Launcher is run. It will quickly fill up people's backup disks. Sure, I could exclude the Data folder, but then what happens if I have a disk problem?
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89 Goblin Rogue
2490
I spoke too soon, it appears the game itself does this as well.
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85 Orc Warrior
7005
Yeah I have noticed that the MPQ files in the data directory are changing quite frequently now. They're not really growing in size, but they do change, and it causes time machine to back them up over and over again. And I'd prefer to NOT have to exclude the data directory.
Edited by Pukka on 4/27/2011 10:57 PM PDT
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MVP - Technical Support
90 Draenei Mage
6490
It really shouldn't be updating these files every single time the Launcher is run. It will quickly fill up people's backup disks. Sure, I could exclude the Data folder, but then what happens if I have a disk problem?


I meant on install of 4.1. It shouldn't be updating those files every time. It certainly shouldn't be copying all of the file if only small bits of it have changed.


Yeah I have noticed that the MPQ files in the data directory are changing quite frequently now. They're not really growing in size, but they do change, and it causes time machine to back them up over and over again. And I'd prefer to NOT have to exclude the data directory.


Has anyone take a before and after checksums of some of the MPQ files ?

And also of the file sizes ?

I'ld interested in finding out if any actual data is added at all. If there isn't then you might be able to get away with excluding the Data folder and doing a manual backup of the Data folder.

A manual back up of the Data folder also has the advantage of putting it on media that doesn't get accessed a lot meaning it should be a clean pristine copy of it. Which would help in a reinstall.
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If you open up a Finder window of your WoW directory, with all the subdirectories open showing modified date, then fire up Launcher, you can see all the files (that I showed above) being 'touched' to the current timestamp. They are not being changed (certainly in size); it's possible (although I can't for the life of me think why) that very small parts of them are being patched byte-for-byte, but I haven't got around the checking that. And I can't be bothered.

It is a palpable bug; if I'm wrong and it's not, it's certainly a feature that no-one wants or needs.

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85 Orc Warrior
7005
If you open up a Finder window of your WoW directory, with all the subdirectories open showing modified date, then fire up Launcher, you can see all the files (that I showed above) being 'touched' to the current timestamp. They are not being changed (certainly in size); it's possible (although I can't for the life of me think why) that very small parts of them are being patched byte-for-byte, but I haven't got around the checking that. And I can't be bothered.

It is a palpable bug; if I'm wrong and it's not, it's certainly a feature that no-one wants or needs.


I keep 3 full copies of WoW on my hard disk that I use rsync to keep sync'd. I assure you that the MPQ files are being changed (how ever so slightly, but enough to set off rsync, as if they we're the same file (just touched) rsync would just update the time stamp, but it's doing a full copy of the files), I just don't understand why this change.

Is it just the Launcher or is the game it's self changing them?
Edited by Pukka on 4/28/2011 9:25 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Priest
16605
Since this seemed like a general problem not specific to time machine or mac, I posted on the general tech support forums. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2416160138

What they say is that this has been the case on the PC client since 4.0.1, and basically that we need to just "deal". Not extremely satisfying....
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85 Orc Warrior
7005
Since this seemed like a general problem not specific to time machine or mac, I posted on the general tech support forums. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2416160138

What they say is that this has been the case on the PC client since 4.0.1, and basically that we need to just "deal". Not extremely satisfying....


Well in a way this is the inherent problem with Blizzard basically building their own file system into files. The reality is there's probably very little changing inside the files, but if you change 1 byte in the file, time machine is going to re-back it up. And since most of the files in the Data directory are 1GB of larger, it quickly becomes a big problem.

Update: I'm testing this further. I just took a MD5 snapshot before I logged in, logged in for about 30 minutes, than logged out and took another snapshot. I note that the md5's didn't change, however the "modified" time stamp was updated, and thus the files will be backed up by time machine. I'm curious why it's marking these as modified when they weren't (and it wasn't doing this in 4.0.6).
Edited by Pukka on 4/28/2011 12:34 PM PDT
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89 Goblin Rogue
2490
What they say is that this has been the case on the PC client since 4.0.1, and basically that we need to just "deal". Not extremely satisfying....


I just looked at that thread, and, as far as I'm concerned, that was a completely unacceptable answer. The stupid way they're doing this will fill up people's backup drives in a hurry, and why should I have to exclude the WoW directories from my backups? What's the point of having a backup system if I have to exclude huge segments of my hard drive from it?
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90 Draenei Priest
16605
Well, I tend to agree the answer was poor, especially for a customer service person (that'll teach me to admit to coming from the mac forum in the "real" tech support forum!)

Not sure where else to take it. No blue response here. If someone at blizz has decided one way or the other if this is how they want it to work, they aren't sharing their thoughts with us.
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MVP - Technical Support
90 Draenei Mage
6490
04/28/2011 04:11 PMPosted by Kipluci
What's the point of having a backup system if I have to exclude huge segments of my hard drive from it?


Well if the data hasn't changed why back it up ?

If it's aready on your Backup why back it up again if it hasn't changed.

What I'm saying is found out if any actual data has changed and if not Back it up manually and exclude it from the Time Machine back up.

EDIT I intend to investigate whether or not the files have had actual data added to them today. Let you know what I come up with.
Edited by Bluspacecow on 4/28/2011 5:43 PM PDT
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I did an md5 checksum before and after Launcher on a couple of files - nothing changed. So it would appear, as I originally suspected, that the Launcher is simply touching those files. It's a pain in the arse having to manually exclude those files, because that's not how I want Time Machine to work. I am happy cutting out /Library/Caches and ~/Download, because I would never want their contents. But if I have a disk failure, I definitely will want the WoW directories. If an update comes through without a fix to the launcher, I will have to manually allow Time Machine to backup those files again, then turn them off.

It's a shame that they haven't responded here, but I have also raised a bug: http://bit.ly/lpsQeT
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MVP - Technical Support
90 Draenei Mage
6490
Thanks for that Ising. Are you a fellow kiwi too ?

Anyways like I've said before you could very easily throw the data folder onto a thumb drive of appropriate size.

I know it's not _the_ best solution but for now it means you at least have a back up of that folder without having to reinstall.

There is this link as well :

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2416160138

Can I get you to update your bug report threads with this link and also the link to this thread ?
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