Arena and RBG Conquest Change - Updated 4/27

85 Draenei Warrior
Sin
8425
I think this was a poorly thought out change.

For many it can be agreed that a good goal each week is to achieve your weekly cap in points. I believe this is consistent with the PvE mentality, particularly with the introduction of heroics now to help achieve that goal. Due to this mentality, this change does two things:

1. Slows the progression of obtaining PvP gear.
2. Makes the weekly arena commitment much larger (scaling to extremes as your rating increases)

Regarding (1), the argument is subjective. I'll trust Blizzard here on whether the pacing is correct. If it isn't, I'll accept that.

However, for (2), this I don't understand. You can achieve (1) without the impact of (2) in other ways. For instance, lowering the weekly cap as rating scaled up. Changing back to a games played format rather than a win-based format. The switch to the win-based format, while I understand its merits, causes each arena session to have an indeterminate amount of time. 10 games were indeterminate as well based on game length, but you could say they were fixed. If you lost a lot, you could be looking at an arbitrary number of games.

Lately I've encountered many games that have lasted up to 45minutes. That's huge for just 1 win, or worse yet a loss. Perhaps I'm an edge case. Either way you have just increased my time commitment by an amount that scales by how well I do. That large uphill battle only makes me less inclined to bother and of course with arena being my only source of PvP progression, I don't feel like I have much left to do in the game.

Basically, you're alienating me. I've had enough trouble keeping my gf interested in the game after the massive overhaul to the druid class (that ruined the fun factor in our opinion). I hope you reconsider.
86 Gnome Warlock
19150

This is the only hint we got that something like this was coming:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/1829962


Except the first tier gear is not the true reward in pvp. It's needed just to be able to be competitive in arena anymore with burst the way it is. There is a big difference between SUPERTURBOGUILD clearing normal raiding content in 346blues and reputation epics than getting Gladiator in the 353 Bloodthirsty blues.

If points were being earned too quickly in a season that has already been marred by so many swing changes to classes/specs, it should have been held off until 4.2 when the next season starts, not in the middle of the season.
1 Gnome Warrior
0
I don't understand why it was changed at all. I've been around since the start of the game and this was the first season I ever participated in arena. The only reason was because it took 5 games to win.

All I want to do it get some points with my friends and try and have fun doing it. 5 wins was good for us. We aren't that good so it would usually be around 10 games for us to get our 5 wins.

I really don't see us continuing to do arenas now. We just don't have the time or the drive to play it more than we were.

All I can see this doing is shrinking the arena playerbase. It just turns this into another grind for people that are just trying to have fun like my team or hard core arena players that have alts. Since arena participation is so low I don't know why you would do this. If anything you should have been advertising that it only took 5 wins to max out points and you would have seen participation go up.
85 Dwarf Shaman
2975
That's just amazing logic Blizzard. Rated battlegrounds are unpopular cause you need 10 people and all of them need to be in Arena gear to be competitive. So what's your idea to make RBGs more popular? Add more barriers, lovely Blizzard just lovely.

I guess this is what we get for complaining about the honor grind being too long. So take a note fellow complainers, they wont fix your grievance, just make everything else suck just as bad.
Edited by Ganning on 4/27/2011 7:28 AM PDT
85 Troll Mage
12470
I appreciate the rush to announce this, since it was undocumented and it's sure better than not announcing it at all, heh. But it would really help to know the rationale behind it. You might think the reason for nerfs is obvious, but it's not. Some of us only do arena or rated BGs rarely. Others of us were only thinking about starting it soon. We really don't know. We can guess, or listen to other players guess and argue, but then we still don't know who's right.

Thanks.
1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
This change was probably intended to prevent casual pvpers from getting gear quickly, but in reality it only hurts the hardcore pvpers at a higher rating. With this change good pvpers will have to win 20+ games against better players, to get their cap for the week. Many hardcore pvpers have high rated alts that will also need 20+ wins. Casual pvpers will need ~10 wins against lower players to get their cap. If blizzard really wants to reduce the rate gear is earned at, there should be changes to the pt cap. The ratio between a 1500 pt cap and the maximum is now much lower than it was in the past.

In the past, it has always taken everyone the same amount of games to get their pts for the week, no matter the rating. Why change that now?

Edit: also, why should it matter if arena gear is easy to get anyway. Unless people are farming arena gear and then turning around and progressing farther in their raids because they have good pvp gear, i don't see how it could matter. Actually, people in good pve gear have always been able to turn around and get high arena ratings with it in the past, so i don't understand why the opposite is suddenly the end of the world.
Edited by Malebloodelf on 4/27/2011 7:25 AM PDT
85 Orc Warlock
4085
The difference in obtaining arena PvP gear opposed to PvE gear is that a full set of PvP epic gear is really required to survive and thrive in arenas. A player no matter the skill will not survive in 1500+ ratings without a full set of purples.

I was 2100+ on my resto shaman Robbiee (Shattered Hand) in WoTLK. I know how to play my shaman, so I have been gearing him up so that I will be able to get onto a serious team. However, I am unable to do so because my PvP gear is not yet completed. The PvP gear is a means to an end, not the end. This is how PvE gear is different than PvP. I currently have to play teams that are FULL EPIC PvP geared in the 1300+ ratings. This is stupid, because I have to really outplay other players just for a win against a substandard player.

PvE gear is different because you can have some blues and such and still clear all the content that is required. There are heroic modes, but you do not need a full set of Heroic Mode gear to really start your heroic modes. This of course would not make sense, and would make heroic modes unable to complete, because you would need the heroic tier gear before doing them.

In an earlier post it was sited that maybe Blizz is trying to get higher rated players more active in PvP than just sit on their ratings. This definitely will not make the players sitting on the top of the flawed ladder system more active. If a player has a 2700+ rating, they have no reason to play arenas for anything. Make a decaying arena rating to get rid of the FoTM comps that have been surfacing and degrading throughout the season.

This is by far the worst season of arena since the start because of the inconsistency of play throughout it. Keep changing the rules as we go, and the experience is further degraded. This is just another change to a currently broken PvP system making it further broken. If you wish to prolong the grinding in PvP, just bring back the old HK system that was in Vanilla and make grind it that way. Make us play week long AVs so that your internet counters are happy that players are active.

I guess my new 1600 alt will just have to struggle more against Full Vicious teams for more games a week before I log off of him. Who does this help? I want to get him full epic'd out so that I can actually begin to play arenas at a higher rating and actually enjoy the game.

I guess I should start raiding on my alts so that I can just get my conquest that way... gg!
Edited by Oceanuss on 4/27/2011 7:28 AM PDT
90 Undead Rogue
9580
Most arena experts I've read agree that you dialed it back too far. 135 is too low.

From the thread that got locked ... after 6 years whatever methods you use to insure patch notes are comprehensive are still not working properly. Stop being proud of the B+ and start working towards an A. I know you can do it.
85 Human Mage
4475
This: [/quote] If points were being earned too quickly in a season that has already been marred by so many swing changes to classes/specs, it should have been held off until 4.2 when the next season starts, not in the middle of the season.[/quote]

On my server, the horde are already outrageously better pvp geared than Alliance. Alliance was starting to catch up but were not there yet. Changing mid-season is not fair.



This is the only hint we got that something like this was coming:

<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/1829962">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/1829962</a>


Except the first tier gear is not the true reward in pvp. It's needed just to be able to be competitive in arena anymore with burst the way it is. There is a big difference between SUPERTURBOGUILD clearing normal raiding content in 346blues and reputation epics than getting Gladiator in the 353 Bloodthirsty blues.

If points were being earned too quickly in a season that has already been marred by so many swing changes to classes/specs, it should have been held off until 4.2 when the next season starts, not in the middle of the season.
90 Tauren Druid
14880
It is my opinion that this is another attempt by blizz to push peeps to do rateds. I've read and heard that they want to make rateds an e sport. I'm hoping all this feedback wont get ignored.
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
4970
... sigh.... I cant even say fixing, because u guys at blizzard just broke one of the main reasons I play wow on a PVP sever, not to mention, this resilience scaling is bs, If both issues arnt fixed I promise u ppl will not play anymore, and I will be one of them

PS, I think its so stupid that rogues move faster in stealth and I love the way they just disappear in combat, gj helping that class cheat
1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
The difference in obtaining arena PvP gear opposed to PvE gear is that a full set of PvP epic gear is really required to survive and thrive in arenas. A player no matter the skill will not survive in 1500+ ratings without a full set of purples.


Thats actually not true. I've played with a ret paladin, and resto druid partner to 2200 in full blues. being stuck at 1500 just because of gear is highly unlikely. Comp = Skill > Gear. thats the priority for arenas right now imo. gear matters but its not everything, and comp doesnt matter nearly as much as it has in the past now.

I'm not saying i support this change though, or that i even support different levels of gear based on rating at all.
85 Human Warlock
5340
Hi Bashiok :)

I bet you guys are looking FORWARD to today, huh? Should be lots of fun.

anyway... my feedback on this. I pvp casually. I'm not a good PvP'er. I like it but I tend to get tunnel vision and start spastically hitting buttons when I panic. But I do it 'cause sometimes I win and that's fun and I like doing it with my partner and it doesn't really take that much time to get capped out each week on conquest points (though vastly more time than it would take if I was a #winner.

But with the change on points, I'm much more unlikely to try to pvp casually in arenas. Maybe 264 was too high. Getting capped on 5 wins might be too easy. But the current number is just too low. Maybe it can be like regular BG's where you get some amount whether you win or lose?

I'd like it so that I feel confident that I'm not going to play 15 arenas and end with just 270 conquest points. That makes casual pvp frustrating. But maybe you don't want casual pvp and if that's the case, that's cool. It's your design. But ratings will prevent me from getting all the really good gear so I'm not sure what's the big deal about Casuals getting points faster.


As a SIDE NOTE: I test software for a living. I understand bugs will come through. Stuff happens. However, my personal biggest fear is when very simple basic functionality stops working and the customer gets it and says "WTF? There's no way you guys did this. You couldn't possibly have paid attention when testing this."
That's my opinion of some things on this patch. There was some basic regression testing that got skipped over as "low risk". But it clearly wasn't, it was a problem with your risk assessment. Omnotron as a Prime example. You CLEARLY had someone working on it because you changed the texture of the blue zone for Arcanotron. But you didn't actually DO the fight? Because if you HAD DONE the fight, how could you have missed the fact that the robot bosses don't spawn correctly any more?

the weird errors, the bugs from scale, from weird interaction of authenticators & remote guild chat... those are understandable.

Not running regression tests on basic functionality... that's not.
1 Orc Shaman
0
ok, to add to the comments, what was the idea behind that change? It worked fine for 5 months and now you decide it has to change? i'm very disappointed, i'm a very casual arena player, I get my 5 wins and I'm happy with it, I can understand the frustration from those who have nearly 2k and + cap, revert the change, admit you are humans and move on
85 Night Elf Druid
0
With a 135 pt limit per win, you can expect that I probably won't be paying a subscription fee much longer. I swear, I'm not trying to make this an ultimatum--I'm honestly saying that this is game-breaking enough for me to be the tipping point.

Although I am gear-capped on my main, next season, that will not be the case. Grinding out 22 wins at a 65% win-ratio amounts to almost 40 games *JUST* to get my weekly cap on one character.

Then, I have to try to convince someone to play with the DK that I just hit 85 on last week, and the rogue that will be hitting 85 this week. To not feel as though I've wasted the entire week, they NEED to get their conquest point cap. The DK is better-geared, but still not nearly at a playable level, and the rogue is going to be in whatever Bloodthirsty I can muster, and the crafted Bloodied gear (which is awful stuff, but better than quest gear).

They'll need 10 games each for their base...last week when I did my DK it took about 14 games to get 5 (partner's MMR was much higher than the DK's gear allowed).

Looking at it this way, my DK will need about 25 games, my rogue will probably need about 30, and my druid will need 37.

This is just for a pathetic conquest point cap, so I can be COMPETITIVE, bearing in mind that base conquest cap gives 1343, which gives me rings, neck and cape before I have to start going to multi-week items. This doesn't include Heroics, raids, dailies, BGs, rBGs--this change is completely ludicrous, and needs to be changed back to its previous values. Not only this, but you honestly do this crap in the MIDDLE of a season. Seriously.

As I said in the beginning, this isn't an ultimatum. I am severely disappointed with a great portion of this patch. In order to keep this thread on-topic, I won't mar this thread with the perceived injustices I see elsewhere, but I cannot see a future for myself in World of Warcraft with this level of mandatory play. And, as Dev who could look up my in-game time knows, that's saying something.
Edited by Pinkunicorn on 4/27/2011 8:29 AM PDT
85 Human Paladin
8030
Terrible change
85 Night Elf Druid
3130
Bad change. Really Bad change. Hopefully this is a miscommunication. Change it back to a percentage, if you have to make it 10 wins instead of 5 fine. At my rating it is currently 17 wins and will only go up.

As it stands I have fun doing 5 wins and can stretch it to 10 but 17? That is not fun. Factor in losses and this is the worst change.
90 Human Death Knight
14070
Put it back to 5 wins gets you capped, it was perfect. Why fix whats not broken?
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