Blizzard, I would like an explanation.

85 Draenei Shaman
7695
Pretty sure when Ret go slammed by changes it was due to PvP... sooooooo, I have personally experienced the opposite to the argument.

I dunno, but it always seems to me that us PvE'ers get the shaft when someone is moaning about how "OP" someone is, and "NERF THEM!!!1111!!" Yeah.
90 Goblin Rogue
Zen
5685
Most of the freaking nerf/buff roller coaster we go through in game is for you PvP folks.
Tell ya what...you get the changes you want....when PvE'ers stop getting nerfed and buffed for the sake of PvP.
Sounds fair to me.


According to who? Certainly not the top percentage or PvE players. If they can deal with these "nerfs" and still manage to down heroic content that the majority of the playerbase will never complete, then I'm sure you can get better to the point where you might be able to complete it too.
85 Dwarf Shaman
4850
04/27/2011 01:46 PMPosted by Garros
Im not one bit concerned with pve raiders getting pvp gear....PVE`ers in a bg with pvp gear is still a PVE`er in a bg...

ppl like this poster annoy me tbh

you know, pvpers who think they're the jesus of gaming because they pvp, lol
46 Blood Elf Mage
500
04/27/2011 07:13 AMPosted by Xantius
These decisions are simply killing the casual wow players.


Err...no they aren't.
85 Goblin Rogue
11225



04/27/2011 01:20 PMPosted by Elementalsin
sometimes we pve people feel shortchange by you pvp folks. When something needs changing on skills because of pvp we pve people feel it.
8 Night Elf Druid
0
Most of the freaking nerf/buff roller coaster we go through in game is for you PvP folks.
Tell ya what...you get the changes you want....when PvE'ers stop getting nerfed and buffed for the sake of PvP.
Sounds fair to me.


Only when you scrubs stop ruining this game by begging for other class mechanics and being the primary cause for homogenization.

I'm actually very against classes being homogenized. I think it ruins the feel of having a class and makes picking one pretty arbitrary.
lol @ the scrubs comment.
Community Manager
Why does Blizzard repeatedly short-change the pvp community in favor of PVE? I am speaking of two things, the conquest point awards being changed and the ability to convert valor points to conquest.

Changing the amount of points awarded for a win was a simply horrible idea, as you can see by the outcry on these forums, arenajunkies, etc. NO ONE likes this idea. For those of us with multiple alts, it will take hours upon hours each week to simply reach point cap. Some of us have lives, jobs, and responsibilities that prevent us from playing WoW 20+ hours a week.

We saw that Arenas and Rated Battlegrounds were over-rewarding players for the time investment required, particularly compared to point gains in PvE. We felt the change we went live with in the patch was a little bit too low and overcompensating though, so we buffed up the numbers for wins just a bit to 180 (Arenas) and 400 (Rated BGs).

04/27/2011 07:13 AMPosted by Xantius
In addition, this change being implemented without it being in the patch notes is simply underhanded. I am sorry, but I don't buy the "it was an honest mistake" excuse that is being tossed around by Bashiok and others. Blizzard has been revising these patch notes for months now; it's obvious that it was simply omitted due to the outrage it would cause.

I'm the one compiling and revising those notes. I scrutinize the patch notes beyond what is probably conducive to my own mental health. I push to make sure I'm getting every single note I can, and that each note is sufficiently detailed and concise. If I had known about this change, it would have been in the patch notes. Just the same, the developers did not withhold this change from me so it wouldn't make it in the patch notes.

There are a lot of developers and they're very busy working on future content. On infrequent occasions a change falls through the cracks and is not properly reported to my team for documentation in the patch notes. That's our fault and something we're working to prevent each and every patch cycle by developing new ways of generating the patch notes.

Let the implication that we intentionally misdirect and lie to you go. It's not true and I personally can't stand it when I see a big change like this not make it into the notes I work for months to finalize.
90 Human Paladin
9425
WoW is a PvE game at heart. PvP is a mini-game.

Stop nerfing my PvE for your mini-game.


04/27/2011 01:27 PMPosted by Evevissie
Because this is a PvE game with PvP elements?


Very true.

Back in the day, they didn't even have PvP specific gear.
90 Night Elf Druid
7240
Not saying this is you, OP, but people seem to think that their $15 a month pays for an unchanging game. As a matter of fact, your subscription doesn't speak to anything about the content of the game.

Please don't make the fallacious connection that because you pay $15 a month you deserve 100% unchanging content.
85 Gnome Priest
5740
04/27/2011 01:42 PMPosted by Rabiesplz
OP is completely right, if they nerfed the amount of CP you get per match they shouldve nerfed the amount of VP you get for heroics. Instead they made it so that you can cap your points in one day exchange points to CP even before a pvper doing arena for the same amount of time you did heroics had half the amount of CP you would have. How is that fair? Lol its like this game is purposely getting progressively worse.


I'd agree with this if pre-4.1 conquest and valor were equivalent effort to get.

When pvers can cap their valor points in 20 minutes, then maybe we can talk. Even with this significant nerf, it's still MUCH faster to cap conquest than it is valor, especially since your competition gets dumbed down to your level as you lose games.
8 Night Elf Druid
0
Most of the freaking nerf/buff roller coaster we go through in game is for you PvP folks.
Tell ya what...you get the changes you want....when PvE'ers stop getting nerfed and buffed for the sake of PvP.
Sounds fair to me.


According to who? Certainly not the top percentage or PvE players. If they can deal with these "nerfs" and still manage to down heroic content that the majority of the playerbase will never complete, then I'm sure you can get better to the point where you might be able to complete it too.


Well.....I wasn't talking about PvE things...I was talking about nerfs/buffs that are obviously for the sole sake of PvP.
And I'm sure the "top percentage" of PvE players are ready and able to adapt to anything. That's why they are at the top right?
I'm not sure where in my post you got that I am complaining about heroic content. I'm not.
I'm just tired of seeing nerfs and buffs constantly. *shrugs*
Nothing to do with heroic content.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11560
04/27/2011 01:53 PMPosted by Zarhym
Let the implication that we intentionally misdirect and lie to you go. It's not true and I personally can't stand it when I see a big change like this not make it into the notes I work for months to finalize.


I don't do any sort of work that requires the detail you put in, so I can't completely understand. But I do have a good imagination, and I'm sure what you do actually is hard.

Keep it up, Zarhym. Don't let the conspiracy nuts get to you.
82 Draenei Death Knight
1895
Who didn't see this coming, really? Cheesing 5 wins per week for ezmode epics wasn't going to last long. If you want to be on par with raiders you can spend 3-4 nights per week pvping, and oh yeah, even if you win matches (kill the boss) you only get a 10% chance at getting points (getting the drop you need).
90 Goblin Rogue
Zen
5685
Why does Blizzard repeatedly short-change the pvp community in favor of PVE? I am speaking of two things, the conquest point awards being changed and the ability to convert valor points to conquest.

Changing the amount of points awarded for a win was a simply horrible idea, as you can see by the outcry on these forums, arenajunkies, etc. NO ONE likes this idea. For those of us with multiple alts, it will take hours upon hours each week to simply reach point cap. Some of us have lives, jobs, and responsibilities that prevent us from playing WoW 20+ hours a week.

We saw that Arenas and Rated Battlegrounds were over-rewarding players for the time investment required, particularly compared to point gains in PvE. We felt the change we went live with in the patch was a little bit too low and overcompensating though, so we buffed up the numbers for wins just a bit to 180 (Arenas) and 400 (Rated BGs).

04/27/2011 07:13 AMPosted by Xantius
In addition, this change being implemented without it being in the patch notes is simply underhanded. I am sorry, but I don't buy the "it was an honest mistake" excuse that is being tossed around by Bashiok and others. Blizzard has been revising these patch notes for months now; it's obvious that it was simply omitted due to the outrage it would cause.

I'm the one compiling and revising those notes. I scrutinize the patch notes beyond what is probably conducive to my own mental health. I push to make sure I'm getting every single note I can, and that each note is sufficiently detailed and concise. If I had known about this change, it would have been in the patch notes. Just the same, the developers did not withhold this change from me so it wouldn't make it in the patch notes.

There are a lot of developers and they're very busy working on future content. On infrequent occasions a change falls through the cracks and is not properly reported to my team for documentation in the patch notes. That's our fault and something we're working to prevent each and every patch cycle by developing new ways of generating the patch notes.

Let the implication that we intentionally misdirect and lie to you go. It's not true and I personally can't stand it when I see a big change like this not make it into the notes I work for months to finalize.


I don't think that many people feel that you're intentionally misleading them by leaving PvP-related changes out from patch notes, but a lot of players who mainly focus on PvP content (like a large number of people over at AJ) do get the feeling that much less thought is put into PvP changes than PvE. I don't necessarily blame you as PvE players are the majority of your subscriber base, but I can't really blame them for feeling that way either.
85 Tauren Druid
9460
04/27/2011 01:53 PMPosted by Zarhym
We saw that Arenas and Rated Battlegrounds were over-rewarding players for the time investment required, particularly compared to point gains in PvE. We felt the change we went live with in the patch was a little bit too low and overcompensating though, so we buffed up the numbers for wins just a bit to 180 (Arenas) and 400 (Rated BGs).


How about the 2nd part of his question? Why is the conversion a one-way street? I don't particularly mind it, since my guild is "whole game", but it is a curious decision and I'd like to know the rationale if possible.

Also, as stated before, we all greatly enjoy the personal touch you add to the patch notes.
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