Why is research required for this game?

50 Draenei Shaman
560
04/28/2011 02:56 PMPosted by Ironraccoon
Research is not really required. You can still play the game ok with just standard messing around. It's only if you want to be "good" that you need research. If you want to raid, be decent on pvp, or have less grief with dungeons then you need research. Just standard playing, you really don't.

It depends on the class and the spec. Some specs are fairly straight forward, others not as much. Others, without any form of research, will soon find themselves struggling to beat tanks they outgear on the dps charts.
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85 Draenei Shaman
8815
Research is required because raid encounters are tuned for high level performance.

Research is required because tooltips do not show how much actual damage the ability does with your current gear.
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04/28/2011 12:25 PMPosted by Zarhym
If you want to reach the maximum potential of your class, sure, there are number crunchers out there who will tell you the best talent and stat choices to make, spell/ability rotations, etc. But the information you need to be successful in your role is really all in the game
When it comes to raid boss encounters, many of them seem to be tuned to demand optimal performance from each player - they are tuned around the known existence of the number crunchers and various addons. You can't get away with just mashing buttons.

When I see someone casting Blizzard on a single target, I know that player is just mashing buttons and/or casting the spells they think look cool, rather than what is effective. The group will typically fail as a result, and I resent the task falling on me to teach them (which they also resent because unsolicited advice is often unwelcome) and IMO the class trainers should do more training than just writing spells into your spellbook for you.

On my rogue, which is a better finishing move: envenom, eviscerate, or rupture? Why do I even have to ask that here? My rogue trainer should tell me what makes one better than another or anything about how to approach making that decision. There's not enough info in the tooltip alone and I need to run recount to optimize my performance or raid groups and even dungeon pugs won't want me there.
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04/28/2011 12:25 PMPosted by Zarhym
If you want to reach the maximum potential of your class, sure, there are number crunchers out there who will tell you the best talent and stat choices to make, spell/ability rotations, etc. But the information you need to be successful in your role is really all in the game.



While I do agree that the improvements are vast (over what I started with 5+ years ago) I can honestly say that the information still falls pretty shy of being all "in game". For instance, I don't think that in ANY in-game text the word "rotation" is even used. I am not sure about "priority" either, but that one might be.

My 40 year old brother started playing recently, he is niether lazy nor stupid by any strech of the imagination... and he acutually requested that I not go questing through the lower levels with him so he could learn more effectively . By the time he reached 8th level I HAD to go to his aid and go over the concept of a rotation and gearing because he was getting beat to death by 6th level mobs.


From a more experienced perspective (and someone with a ton of alts), it annoys me that nearly every 6 months I have to re-tool my bar and macros on nearly every toon I play. This is due to the CONSTANT talent and ability changes that can literally make staple abilities that I have always used... all but useless. This info doesn't come from the game except through ultra-boring target dummy practice so I MUST go to other places for the info.
Edited by Keepsayke on 4/28/2011 3:31 PM PDT
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85 Draenei Paladin
4360
Think about it. If they give you the means to help yourself, you won't need to ask any more questions and have to wait/hope for a helpful response. You can just get the information yourself. It's not hard to look something up.

Teach a man to fish, etc etc.
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85 Orc Death Knight
3985
It's not required, but expect to die a lot while you learn the fights the regular old fashioned way. Can you think of any sort of game where you had a boss and IMMEDIATELY knew all the tricks to kill him?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6075
04/28/2011 12:25 PMPosted by Zarhym
If you want to reach the maximum potential of your class, sure, there are number crunchers out there who will tell you the best talent and stat choices to make, spell/ability rotations, etc. But the information you need to be successful in your role is really all in the game. We've gone to great lengths to ensure things are clear enough that you can make some meaningful choices for your character's power on your own, and still have a great shot at catching onto what makes you excel.


I dont agree with this at all. Guides from Blizzards are oddly absent; I rely upon other players and websites to understand what is required.

For this character each of the specs, assassination, combat and sub all have different stat requirements. And there is NO information in game about what they should be. I think its questionable that I need to find an outside source to establish what my present hit cap is.

If I want to make sure I have it right I have to research from other sources. And who knows if they have it spot on.
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85 Draenei Shaman
8815
04/28/2011 03:40 PMPosted by Allene
Currently the game provides all the information you could ever need. The only thing you have to do is put 2 and 2 together and test it out. Dying isn't a bad thing, there's no permanent loss for dying in this game.


If all you do is quest and level, sure you have all the information you need.
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85 Troll Shaman
5915
Reading's good for you!
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87 Human Mage
13395

My 40 year old brother started playing recently, he is niether lazy nor stupid by any strech of the imagination... and he acutually requested that I not go questing through the lower levels with him so he could learn more effectively . By the time he reached 8th level I HAD to go to his aid and go over the concept of a rotation and gearing because he was getting beat to death by 6th level mobs.


That is quite amusing.

If you NEED a level 85 in order to get thru the questlines intended for level 1-15, obviously something is wrong with the player.

My personal reaction when being killed repeatedly by the same mob is. "Hmm, this is too hard, maybe I should go back and do something easier until I get better/stronger."

The reaction most bad players have is what we see here, "Hmm, this is too hard, maybe I should get someone else to come here and do it for me."

There is absolutely NO need for a rotation at level 8.

In fact, as I've already said... since you can simply go back and do easier content to level up and strengthen your character, rotation optimization isnt truly 'necessary' until you level cap and get most gear available to you and reach your character's relative 'power cap'.

The reason most people say 'google it', is because there is simply a HUGE community for Warcraft compared to other games, so odds are whatever character question you have has already been asked, answered, and broken down to percentages and math as to which answer is correct, WHY it is correct, and in which situations another answer is preferable.
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That's quite anecdotal evidence. I, in the other hand, have always managed to figure everything out, even during my first playthrough, even totally invisible concepts such as threat. By level 40 I was writing my own macros and overhauling my controls because I wanted to perform better, and I didn't have the luxury of this kind of hand holding or even training dummies.

Currently the game provides all the information you could ever need. The only thing you have to do is put 2 and 2 together and test it out. Dying isn't a bad thing, there's no permanent loss for dying in this game.



My brother is fairly new to RPGs in general. I COMPLETELY agree that Bliz has made great strides in trying to educate the rookies (based on my own experiece from years ago), but it still falls pretty shy of being complete. And it certainly does not make any attempt to explain things like rotations and such to new players... the abilties merely suggest times to use a particular ability, but do not really give tips about using things in tandem to better effect.

Simply put, my brother is bad (which is to be expected) but the game did not provide enough information to keep him from being bad. In his second game session (the one without me) he was out with his Hunter in a perpetual loop of being corpse camped by level 6 mobs. Had he started the game having no friends that played (and would help) it would have been his last session.

His exact quote to my wife, when he finally asked for help was "I keep gettting killed over and over by these things. This is not fun at all."



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100 Worgen Warlock
11095
why is research required for chess?

i mean... most good players i know study hundreds of matches, read strategy/theory books and practice sequences against computer simulators giving them a total advantage against casual chess players.

nerf chess. game is overtuned and clearly caters to hardcores.
Edited by Anathematize on 4/28/2011 4:01 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3105
a 15-minute time investment allows you to play one spec to its full potential. I don't see a problem
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