Coming in 4.2: the Dungeon Journal

85 Goblin Shaman
2190
Does this really solve the inherent problem with the raids, though?

Let's take the first 3 raids in Cata. BWD, BoT, and TOFW.

Why are we here? I miss the days of "raid quests" that'd lead you to a raid and make you want to complete it.

I'll take BRC as a great example of a dungeon setup. You find it from Hyjal and get a quest that brings you there and you follow the story of Raz as he plows through the place. While this sort of thing isn't optimal for a raid set up, something similar could be accomplished.

In Vanilla, you'd get quests for AQ in Silithus which made you want to raid it. If you were new to WoW, right...would you even know that BWD or BoT existed without trade chat? There are no quests to even guide you there, and while knowing why this boss must be killed is nice...if he's so bad and mean, why not a quest for it? Item rewards are, of course, not a necessity, but you'd think - at least - the King of SW would give a quest to kill that Nefarion fellow who is hovering over SW in that mountain over there. In the mean time, kill some of his abomination experiments while you are it.

I guess, in my view, raiding is summed up excellently by Adm. Stockdale: "Who am I and why am I here?"


Agree. Raids aren't super supported by in-game lore anymore. The method by which your character learns of these raids and the reasons that he or she decides to take part in them are all necessarily external to the world of the game at this point. This probably isn't a problem for most people outside of RP servers, but to me it somehow makes the game feel thinner and more mechanical when the raids aren't "justified," so to speak, by events and quests that your character takes part in within the world of the game.

I'm not saying the current raids aren't supported by lore at all, I'm just saying that raiding, as an activity your character engages in, seems odd when you consider that almost everything else your character does while interacting with the world of the game is motivated by an npc that asked you to do it. Even pvp combat has a element of in-game lore motivation, with the calls to arms, as well as a couple quests (to be honest I have no idea if those quests still even exist, I haven't pvped seriously in a long time).
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85 Human Warrior
2670
I believe it is not going to take away from figuring things out it will just give players a hint on what to look out for.

05/02/2011 08:58 AMPosted by Kaivax
For example, while the Dungeon Journal might say something like "This ability will cause all players in the affected area to take damage," it won’t say anything explicit like "All players except the tank should stand behind the boss during his Shield phase."


You'll still have to tell people where to position, but you won't have to explain so much when doing it.
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61 Orc Death Knight
330
I like this it helps a lot of people out when they don't know where to go.
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85 Troll Druid
8530
Suggestion - the Dungeon Journal currently uses the word "stage" to represent a different part of a boss encounter. Why doesn't it just say "phase"? Everyone already uses the word, why confuse people?
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90 Orc Death Knight
10685
Just saw it on totalhalibut's channel, and it is great!
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89 Troll Mage
0
More like "Dungeon Encyclopedia"! amirite?

Still, a beautiful and awesome idea. Looking forward to it.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
8170
O thank godz!!! *hugs devs* just gimme a skull on the map and I'm good...but this information about the dungeons themselves being available is much better. I appreciate it.
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85 Draenei Priest
1240
Hmmm, not all players that don't know any better will be embarrassed to ask; lot's of people just don't care because they know they are in a pug and will get carried thru.

However, I think this Journal is an excellent idea, and I for one will absolutely utilize it! Thanks Blizz!
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33 Goblin Hunter
140
As a player that loves reading quests (at least the first time around) and reading up on lore...I definitely will appreciate this new feature for more reasons than one.
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
3340
that may SOUND like a good idea...but you wouldnt be WORKING for your gear.
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85 Draenei Shaman
10490
As convenient, and nice as this Dungeon Journal is and looks, Blizzard has broken there own words in it.
05/02/2011 08:58 AMPosted by Kaivax
For example, while the Dungeon Journal might say something like "This ability will cause all players in the affected area to take damage," it won’t say anything explicit like "All players except the tank should stand behind the boss during his Shield phase."


I've taken a personal look at this dungeon journal, and clearly this guide is more explicit then you claim it to be. Of course it would be unfair for me to make such claims without giving some evidence. So a good example I found was from Gamebreaker.TV's Lore, also known from Tankspot/ZamOfficial. He clearly pointed out in one of the Dungeon Journal entry's for the Firelands it showed exactly what you said it wouldn't. It gave specific instructions to tank some adds away from the raid or the raid will take damage. Obviously this completely contradicts what you said earlier.
05/02/2011 08:58 AMPosted by Kaivax
it won’t say anything explicit like "All players except the tank should stand behind the boss during his Shield phase."


Blizzard, we do appreciate this Dungeon Journal, atleast I do. But personally my suggestion to you guys is to keep it in the 5mans, or make it more brief and less specific as you said you would. As a former " Hardcore " raider, you're killing one of the major elements that drove me to enjoy being a " Hardcore " raider by giving us such information. Please leave it to Tankspot ect...to do these raid guides. Do not waste good employee time on this. This is not a issue, and there are many more things that personally I believe your employees could spend time on constructively. (This is just my personal opinion though).

As Lore stated on the most recent Legendary Live Show this Dungeon Journal, hurts websites like Wowpedia, and Wowhead. Not only this but we've all seen the posts from players from world top guilds such as " Ensida, For The Horde, and Paragon " clearly stating that this Dungeon Journal will destroy a major element of " The Race to World 1st ".

So to sum up what I'm saying, Blizzard stick with your original statement, keep it brief and nice. I'm glad to see this was on the PTR before it hit live so it can be fixed before its released to all 11.4 million subscribers. Don't waste your employees time working on making this dungeon journal anymore explicit/specific, if anything make it LESS explicit. Please do not add and try to fix what is not broken or improve it.

Once again these are just my OPINIONS and I do not speak for the whole WoW playerbase, but I hope my feedback is taken serious and is looked into. Thanks!

Edited by Miarralol on 5/18/2011 11:50 AM PDT
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85 Goblin Warlock
2730
WHY ARE YOU NERFING WARLOCK'S DRAIN LIFE PLEASE DONT DO THAT!We dont do enough dmg as is....
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100 Undead Warlock
15985
That's why warlocks roll destro. Drain spec'd Aff doesn't do nearly as much straight-up damage even with the buffed felhunter critting for 70k.
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85 Goblin Mage
6290
Thumbs up: something else for lazy gamers to ignore when they try to down a boss without putting in 5 seconds of effort toward learning the encounter!
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90 Human Paladin
15275
This Information is too much I thought it was just going to be tooltips and such why did they put phases? wheres the discovery on the bosses? theres some decent info on the net but even then theres not as much info as in the dungeon journal. seems kinda bad espcially on new encounters....

I understand the info should be there for the causal player but why give it to the hardcore raiders? makes no sense to me.

Oh well this takes away from raiding from lots of people progressing if they tell you everything you need to know about the boss..
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90 Troll Hunter
14095
So now noobs dont even have to know how to use google anymore. So cool!

Just kidding. This sounds dumb. There's plenty of online resources already. Don't coddle the players by putting the walkthrough directly in the game


You mistake this implementation as a walk-through. While you will be told the items and abilities the boss will employ, it will not tell you when, how much damage, where to stand etc. This is merely an extra in-game tool to help players get into the encounters, understand them a little better, and enjoy them. The ability to take down the boss is still soundly within player hands and abilities.


I'm sorry but have you seen the dungeon journal? Did you watch Legendary on Gamebreaker.tv this week? Did you watch Lore go through the dungeon journal on Gamebreaker.tv describing Lord Khyollth and how Concussive Stomp does 35,000 damage to all raid members? I'm pretty sure that is telling me how much damage the boss is going to do.

The amount of info that is in the journals as they are on the PTR will make raiding so easy, particularly for high level raiders like Paragon, Ensidia etc... that you might as well just give us Purples when we pay our 15 dollars. DBM and other addons will be updated sooner, give better information and warnings etc... There will barely be a need for online guides as many of them exist now and you will actually be destroying much of the social framework and culture that this game created on internet forums and websites by implementing this.

I do not want to know all the boss abilities or how much damage they deal. I don't want ridiculously hard content that takes forever to clear but I don't want to be told everything about a boss before I pull it. Most of the fun is in the discovery not in the execution. If I have to google something to get a guide provided by a player that has already killed the boss then so be it, but the developer doing that for me ruins the fun of the game.

I am seriously mind blown by this. I have been playing video games for roughly 23 years now and I have never seen a guide as extensive as this be included in game. In my opinion the entire thing should be scrapped. I do not want this and I certainly do not need this.

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