World of Warcraft®

I'm sorry Bliz, but you severely disappointed all of the people who wanted these dungeons to be for everyone.

Some of us have waited a couple of expansions and have always wanted to do these dungeons, and finally could, and really enjoyed farming for that rare mount. You took something that was casual friendly, that the entire player base enjoyed, then took it away and gave it over to the no-life raiders.

Casuals know why you lose so many subscriptions, it's because there is so little content left that you can work at a little at a time to achieve something.

These dungeons should have been created with the casual in mind, with the level of difficulty similar to the holiday bosses, where they have a rare chance of dropping a mount, and a little bit of PVE and PVP points, or basic gear.

I don't care if the hardcores cry about "wellfare gear". It's the casuals that pay your subscription fees the most and #**!% at you the least.

they will be eventually. just wait in line until the nerfs.

I have done ZA, and save for the eagle boss, the joint seems fairly friendly.


As long as you do a modicum of research on your class and can learn from past mistakes.

I like it a lot.

My friend, who is 347 ilevel is a casual.

He plays 5 hours a week.

He has completed ZA/ZG 3 times with only a few deaths in pugs.

Problem? Casual =/= bad.

Anyone can do ZA/ZG in the gear required if the group understands the mechanics. It isn't a OMG ONLY RAIDERZ CANZ KILL THESE DUNGEONZ. Its more like "If you have half a brain, and can learn fights instead of just pewpew zerg, you will be fine."

Though I do see even people in full 359 struggle on Jin in ZG (last boss), and I feel P2 may be a little overtuned as this is suppossed to be balanced for 346 geared players.

04/29/2011 07:46 AMPosted by Acalian

These dungeons should have been created with the casual in mind, with the level of difficulty similar to the holiday bosses, where they have a rare chance of dropping a mount, and a little bit of PVE and PVP points, or basic gear.

If you want a "easy casual experience" stick with the normal instances or first tier of cata heroics. Each new "tier" of 5 mans that will be added will be more difficult. That is how the game evolves. You should have already realized thise.

its not that hard its peoples ability to pay attention i'm in za for the first time watched a 16 min or so long vid and know the fights and explained them as we went and we were downing bosses first try

04/29/2011 07:53 AMPosted by Ketsueki

its not that hard its peoples ability to pay attention i'm in za for the first time watched a 16 min or so long vid and know the fights and explained them as we went and we were downing bosses first try

And in retrospec. ZA is stupid easy.

Bear boss does literally no damage to a tank that willingly uses cooldowns and if 3 people know how to rotate the charge.

Lynx boss is cake if you use the green totem affectively.

Dragonhawk doesn't do much damage outside the fire bombs and adds stacking debuff on people.

Hex lord... is a complete disgrace. In BC, his "aoe" before taking a classes abilities would do 60-80% of everyoens hp and required each healer to stagger a healing cooldown each time. Now? It does like 6-7% of their hp.

Last boss? whatever his name is, is only hard IF he gets the lynx avatar. Then its up to the tank to smartly taunt at the right time to ensure no death.

The eagle is the only boss in there, that is problematic. And that is because of how hard the lightning hits, and if your on opposite side of the platform your screwed. Plus the chain debuff he puts on melee heavy comps.

My friend, who is 347 ilevel is a casual.

He plays 5 hours a week.

He has completed ZA/ZG 3 times with only a few deaths in pugs.

Problem? Casual =/= bad.

Anyone can do ZA/ZG in the gear required if the group understands the mechanics. It isn't a OMG ONLY RAIDERZ CANZ KILL THESE DUNGEONZ. Its more like "If you have half a brain, and can learn fights instead of just pewpew zerg, you will be fine."

Though I do see even people in full 359 struggle on Jin in ZG (last boss), and I feel P2 may be a little overtuned as this is suppossed to be balanced for 346 geared players.

These dungeons should have been created with the casual in mind, with the level of difficulty similar to the holiday bosses, where they have a rare chance of dropping a mount, and a little bit of PVE and PVP points, or basic gear.

If you want a "easy casual experience" stick with the normal instances or first tier of cata heroics. Each new "tier" of 5 mans that will be added will be more difficult. That is how the game evolves. You should have already realized thise.

Your numbers don't add up, how could he beat them each 3 times in a total of 5 hours of play? That would be an average of 45 Minutes each, all puging it? Even when people start Zerging the content they will take more than that

They are completely possible to beat and when people learn the strategies involved and get the mechanics down better, you should expect them to be alot more smooth

Your numbers don't add up, how could he beat them each 3 times in a total of 5 hours of play? That would be an average of 45 Minutes each, all puging it? Even when people start Zerging the content they will take more than that

They are completely possible to beat and when people learn the strategies involved and get the mechanics down better, you should expect them to be alot more smooth

two ZA runs, each taking a little over 1 hour. (my guild runs take 40 minutes)

and 1 zg run (took 3 hours, had a tank leave and 2 healers leave after whiping on the panther boss, and the last boss a few times)

3 runs. 5 hours. like I said.

These dungeons should have been created with the casual in mind, with the level of difficulty similar to the holiday bosses, where

just..........no

I'm sorry Bliz, but you severely disappointed all of the people who wanted these dungeons to be for everyone.

Some of us have waited a couple of expansions and have always wanted to do these dungeons, and finally could, and really enjoyed farming for that rare mount. You took something that was casual friendly, that the entire player base enjoyed, then took it away and gave it over to the no-life raiders.

Casuals know why you lose so many subscriptions, it's because there is so little content left that you can work at a little at a time to achieve something.

These dungeons should have been created with the casual in mind, with the level of difficulty similar to the holiday bosses, where they have a rare chance of dropping a mount, and a little bit of PVE and PVP points, or basic gear.

I don't care if the hardcores cry about "wellfare gear". It's the casuals that pay your subscription fees the most and #**!% at you the least.

ZA/ZG are not hard at all! What's HARD are the people who don't PAY ATTENTION!

PuGing in is just plan luck! You might get a solid group that may clear it in no time or your stuck for hours with random players coming and going, also needed to explain the mechanics again. I have seen it in both prospective as a tank and as healer, its nothing more than the luck of the draw.

I got stuck up to 4hrs with one other PuG in ZG yesterday all because some people fail to understand how f-in easy the Bosses are.

The thing is I actually enjoy PuGing I'm just amazed how many people complain about the content. I really hope Blizz leaves it alone!

I'm pretty casual. across my 3 85s i haven't downed a single raid boss yet in cata cause i'm too lazy and scared to try to pug anything. so i'm a pretty wimpy player. and you know what? so far i love the new 5-mans!

04/29/2011 07:46 AMPosted by Acalian

the no-life raiders.

Saying something as stupid as this - whether about 'basement dwelling virgin elitist pigs' or 'pathetic mouth-breathing casual bads' - should instantly disqualify you from posting on the forums.

04/29/2011 07:46 AMPosted by Acalian

These dungeons should have been created with the casual in mind, with the level of difficulty similar to the holiday bosses,

Agggghhhh no plz no. how did you even make it to 85, much less get through heroics, with this attitude?

04/29/2011 07:49 AMPosted by Robokapp

they will be eventually. just wait in line until the nerfs.

Yes. Just as I figure i'll wait till 4.2 to faceroll the 4.0 raids, the OP too will just have to wait a while to see ZA & ZG.

Look, this content has been out for about 72 hours. yet they will have to tide us over for a while. if we could already faceroll them because they were as easy as holiday bosses, then that would be incredibly stupid because we'd get bored with it very quickly.

imo there should be a blanket ban on complaining about content difficulty for at least 2 weeks after release.

Casual does not equal bad.


You are casually bad.

I can't raid anymore due to time constraints. Don't take what little challenge I have in game away from me.

it seems that subs haven't dropped enough to convince blizzard to re-tune cataclysm endgame for casuals

we'll see what happens when june-august rolls around and subs drop off a cliff with the wonderful summer weather outside

people's patience for random pass/fail 1-2 shot mechanics tends to disappear when summer rolls around

Your numbers don't add up, how could he beat them each 3 times in a total of 5 hours of play? That would be an average of 45 Minutes each, all puging it? Even when people start Zerging the content they will take more than that

They are completely possible to beat and when people learn the strategies involved and get the mechanics down better, you should expect them to be alot more smooth

two ZA runs, each taking a little over 1 hour. (my guild runs take 40 minutes)

and 1 zg run (took 3 hours, had a tank leave and 2 healers leave after whiping on the panther boss, and the last boss a few times)

3 runs. 5 hours. like I said.

And he doesn't spend any time in game with Professions, raiding, Dailies, quests, Alts, PvP or doing the AH? If we really want to add into the number, he doesn't spend any time on EJ, the Forums, MMO-Champion or You tube researching the game?

I don't mean to sound like an A-hole, but my general point is that we tend to downplay the amount of time we actually spend playing the game... He might be on a 5 hour a week raid schedule (like me) but i doubt he only plays the game 5 hours a week

Your numbers don't add up, how could he beat them each 3 times in a total of 5 hours of play? That would be an average of 45 Minutes each, all puging it? Even when people start Zerging the content they will take more than that

They are completely possible to beat and when people learn the strategies involved and get the mechanics down better, you should expect them to be alot more smooth

two ZA runs, each taking a little over 1 hour. (my guild runs take 40 minutes)

and 1 zg run (took 3 hours, had a tank leave and 2 healers leave after whiping on the panther boss, and the last boss a few times)

3 runs. 5 hours. like I said.

So they did their five hours in the week already and magically completed the dungeons three times with no problems in a full pug? Wish I had that kind of luck. Because that is all this is, a lucky anecdote (assuming it's true, cuz I can exaggerate all kinds of stuff to make points too! :)

These dungeons should have been created with the casual in mind, with the level of difficulty similar to the holiday bosses, where they have a rare chance of dropping a mount, and a little bit of PVE and PVP points, or basic gear.

Are you trolling? This is an absolutely ridiculous expectation.

These were raids years ago. They are now meant to bridge the 346 - 359 gear / mechanics gap. They are not mount dealerships.

04/29/2011 08:48 AMPosted by Sorrowsong

higher end players need somthing to do! let the noobs have teh regular heroics ZG and ZA is so fun but it kills me inside that blizz is going to give into the pressure of people wanting easy available epic loot and nerf these to hell.

It seems to be that they ALWAYS plan to gradualy nerf dungeons as time goes on, im not sure they are "giving in to winers" as much as giving better players a chance to do the enounters before nerfing them