World of Warcraft™

Retribution PvP balance seems to be following a disturbing trend again made evident in the 4.1 patch, and I feel it has become a consistent enough problem to be brought up directly. My intention is not to accuse or blame the developers, only to illuminate a specific balancing trend with regards to my spec that I hope will bring better understanding and a desire for a better design compromise for the Retribution spec. With that said, let's begin.

From the very beginning, Retribution PvP balancing has, for some strange reason, revolved excessively around extremes in order to be considered a viable threat. Take for example the infamous 3.0 patch, where the implementation of extremely overwhelming and front loaded burst potential gave Retribution Paladins a sufficiently strong enough niche to begin climbing beyond the rather mediocre representation they were previously capable of. Even then, ratings beyond 2200 were difficult to attain from a lack of certain utility that high burst could not make up for, and the Retribution spec in general was still not considered truely viable even with such overpowered burst potential. Once it was significantly toned down in 3.1 however, the spec became noticeably underpowered for the rest of the expansion.

This balancing trend was again repeated, abeit in a different manner, once Cataclysm went live via very powerful and consistent offhealing potential that in some cases put dedicated healing specs to shame. Retribution representation began to climb to more respectable levels as a result of such an extreme, and like 3.1, this backfired when this was significantly toned down in 4.1.

Now, the spec is once again barely hanging on in competetive PvP only as a result of some of the most powerful burst potential in the game. Once again, the spec is relying on overpowered extremes in order to remain somewhat viable to make up for noticeable deficiencies in other areas.

My question is, why do the developers continue to balance the spec around overly powerful mechanics instead of finding a balanced medium between them? Instead of relying on blatantly overpowered healing or burst potential, why aren't design deficiencies that make such extremes a neccessity addressed in some way so surviveability/utility/burst could be smoothed out into a balanced setup instead of certain aspects being far more powerful than others and swinging back and forth across the spectrum?

It seems to me that the developers are only making more work for themselves with their current design philosophy because they inevitably have to continually reign in certain forementioned aspects of the Retribution spec that usually end up making it too weak as a result. Instead of balancing the spec back and forth around overpowered healing or burst, why not tone certain aspects down to acceptable levels and improve neglected aspects of the spec such as offensive utility/personal surviveability so a more balanced product is achieved and the spec can function without relying on overpowered extremes just to remain barely PvP viable?

As a longstanding Ret player, I have never enjoyed relying on extremes when a reasonable balance between surviveability/utility/burst could produce a superior design model that could be a noticeable asset to it's teammates and be able to function reliably on it's own while being fair to the opposition as well. I personally don't see popping all DPS CDs and range spamming HoW as a balanced alternative to OP WoG offhealing, and I'm fairly certain other classes feel similarly.

To the developers, all I am asking is that more consideration be given to neglected aspects of Retribution so a more streamlined and balanced product becomes possible instead of being forced to implement overwhelming extremes that inevitably become balance problems and the end result being an underpowered spec. Thanks for your time.

There will never be real PvP balance. Might as well just get used to it.

05/09/2011 12:11 PMPosted by Arlunai

There will never be real PvP balance. Might as well just get used to it.

Overall PvP balance maybe. Retribution is definately possible to balance though; like I mentioned, it is too reliant on extremes instead of a balanced blending of surviveabilit/utility/burst. If neglected aspects were improved and such extremes toned down to compensate, I feel the spec would be in a much better place for everyone involved, Paladins and otherwise.

05/09/2011 12:15 PMPosted by Andarin

Retribution is definately possible to balance though; like I mentioned, it is too reliant on extremes instead of a balanced blending of surviveabilit/utility/burst

How long has this game been around? How many chances have they been given to actually fix things? How many extremely experienced (not just high rated, but still experienced) people have told them time and again what needs to happen for actual balance?

Has it happened? Never. They always go to extremes. ALWAYS. It will...not...happen. They make too much money stringing people along with promises of balance, buffs, and FotM rerollers.

05/09/2011 12:18 PMPosted by Arlunai

Retribution is definately possible to balance though; like I mentioned, it is too reliant on extremes instead of a balanced blending of surviveabilit/utility/burst

How long has this game been around? How many chances have they been given to actually fix things? How many extremely experienced (not just high rated, but still experienced) people have told them time and again what needs to happen for actual balance?

Has it happened? Never. They always go to extremes. ALWAYS. It will...not...happen. They make too much money stringing people along with promises of balance, buffs, and FotM rerollers.

pretty much this.

ret can do pretty well for itself in several comps, and is more than capable at bgs.

ret is not going to get treated like a class because it is not a class.

blizzard obviously wants to focus on trees that have healing specs because every class has a dps spec, but not all have a healing spec, and healers are needed in pve and pvp.

ret doesnt deserve anymore special treatment than holy priests, enh shammys, fire mages, moonkins, survival hunters, etc.....

just because everyone and his dog rolled a ret doesnt mean that its supposed to be the pally powerhouse pvp spec. for what it is, there are some guys who know how to REALLY know how to make ret look like a powerhouse.

there isn't any paladin pvp spec at all right now is the main problem

Because if holy sucks we need to suck more as holy is our designated pvp spec, and if holy is good we can't be. Otherwise pally rep would be through the roof.

I agree with the topic's premise. It's starting to feel like the developers are actually having a hard time finding a "happy medium" with Ret's balance. Either we're stupid OP or stupid UP on an even playing field.

Ret's are using their Holy Power on their Healing finisher "too much" after we gave them all these talents to prop it up? Well, we can't have that, now can we? Let's sharply devalue these talents, slash Ret's group utility, and wreck Ret's self-healing by giving WoG a ridiculous cooldown.

ret is naked without WOG. its as simple as that.

Honestly, its been 5 years, its just not going to happen.

Andarin how do you have the patience to make more and more threads hoping for the betterment of ret? Do you see any light at the end of the tunnel?

Ret has been more or less balanced in organized PvP several times throughout WotLK and even in Cata before the WoG nerf, but for some reason the devs insist on balancing ret around unrated BGs and sub-1500 arenas, where opponents are less likely to take advantage of our weaknesses against kiting and dispels, and where our lack of offensive utility is less of a problem- not having a snare isnt as much of a big deal when your opponents are too stupid to kite anyway, and even before Cata we could "interrupt" bad casters by just running through them.

It just pisses me off that the way the devs "balance" ret completely contradicts the way they balance other specs.
Ret is OP in low rated arenas but average in organized PvP? TO THE GROUND!
Mages OP in low rated arenas but average in organized PvP? Its fine l2p.
Ret is using its resources to heal instead of DPS? Herp derp we can't be having that, never mind the fact that healing has pretty much always been ret's only strong point compared to other dps specs.
DKs are using their resources to heal instead of DPS? Cool story, bro.

Seriously, what the hell.

05/09/2011 10:21 PMPosted by Grimbold

DKs are using their resources to heal instead of DPS? Cool story, bro.

hero class

It just pisses me off that the way the devs "balance" ret completely contradicts the way they balance other specs.
Ret is OP in low rated arenas but average in organized PvP? TO THE GROUND!
Mages OP in low rated arenas but average in organized PvP? Its fine l2p.
Ret is using its resources to heal instead of DPS? Herp derp we can't be having that, never mind the fact that healing has pretty much always been ret's only strong point compared to other dps specs.
DKs are using their resources to heal instead of DPS? Cool story, bro.

Seriously, what the hell.

lol

As always, Blizz just want hybrids' healer specs to be the main focus of a class. Its a game of whack a mole with spec power and random hybrid classes keep finding ways to not spec healer and be powerful. If you bought Cata to play a hybrid dps spec and are surprised it has received heavy handed and out of he blue nerfs, don't be. Its just a subtle painful message that you wasted your time gearing ret, moonkin, ele, feral, etc because the encouraged design is to be a healbot.

It just pisses me off that the way the devs "balance" ret completely contradicts the way they balance other specs.
Ret is OP in low rated arenas but average in organized PvP? TO THE GROUND!
Mages OP in low rated arenas but average in organized PvP? Its fine l2p.
Ret is using its resources to heal instead of DPS? Herp derp we can't be having that, never mind the fact that healing has pretty much always been ret's only strong point compared to other dps specs.
DKs are using their resources to heal instead of DPS? Cool story, bro.

Seriously, what the hell.

Teehee.