Combat tables, diminishing returns and PANDAS

100 Draenei Warrior
15645
You're not seeing yourself as at CTC cap because you're not against boss level monsters, only against mobs the same level as you. You're at 99.49% without buffs, so I'm assuming you're a bit over 100%. However, monsters that are a higher level than you reduce each of your avoidance stats by 0.2% for every level above you that they are. For a boss mob, that's 3 levels, so you lose 0.6% each on your miss, dodge, parry and block, so you wind up losing a total of 2.4%. So, you're not actually at 100%, you're actually at 97.6%, hence the discrepancy. This is why people talk about hitting 102.4%. At 102.4%, when you lose the 2.4% because boss mobs are 3 levels higher than you, you're still at 100%.

Yes, stamina is your next best stat after you get to 102.4%. There's a lot of unavoidable magic and physical damage in Dragon Soul (Stomp, Psychic Drain, Void Bolt, Focused Assault, Hour of Twilight, Impale, Tetanus to list some of the most obvious ones) and stamina gives your healers a bit more breathing room and makes you more likely to survive big hits. Yes, avoidance will reduce the overall damage you take, but that's only really going to show up on Recount after the fight, not actually in fight, when healers are casting their big heals on you, and the latter is the actually important bit. It doesn't matter if you take less overall damage than another tank if you die because your stamina is low.

Your gear and spec look fine to me, just eyeballing them. The only thing I'd really have done differently is going 2/2 Improved Judgement (More ranged pulling moves can't be a bad thing) rather than 1/2 Eye for and Eye.

What most people around here for playing with gear is chardev.org. I haven't used it that much myself, but it is pretty sweet from what I've seen.

Aaaaand lastly, RAWR is wrong. Block has no diminishing returns.
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100 Human Paladin
11875
My apologies Waniou for making you regurgitate this stuff. I read it but those parts slipped my mind. Well I did check chardev.org and for now I guess it will work. Seeing as how it will no longer be maintained it could be obsolete at some point.

Thanks again Waniou.
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100 Human Warrior
12615
I'm sorry if this has been asked.

now CTC is after buffs, food and Shield block?

without Shield block im at 88% with it im at 113. I will try to log out in Tank gear

im at:

Dodge 15.24%
perry 17.55%
block 53.36%

total avoidance 90.13 without food/buffs etc.
Edited by Waggy on 2/9/2012 7:08 PM PST
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100 Draenei Warrior
15645
I was gonna be all like "YOU FORGOT MISS" but apparently you didn't. Go you!

But no, when you're figuring out your CTC, you want to figure it out with buffs that will always be up in combat. So that's your food buff (Which will only ever drop if you die), HoW/Battle Shout and Kings/Mark of the Wild, and, if you have it, Resolve of Undying, because once it stacks up, it'll always be up.
Shield Block is only up a maximum of a third of the time, so you want to reach the magical 102.4% number before hitting Shield Block, and before any proccy-type trinkets, such as Veil of Lies.

The exception to this is Ultraxion. Because of the Last Defender of Azeroth buff, you can keep Shield Block up 100% of the time, so you can swap around gear, usually trinkets and safely drop below 102.4%, because you only need to be at 77.4% to be at full CTC on Ultraxion.
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100 Human Warrior
12615
ok great!

any suggestions on my gear? gems?

yeah i want the resolve of undying. have only seen it drop twice.
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100 Draenei Warrior
15645
Resolve of Undying is pretty meh, to be honest. It's not so much that it's a bad trinket, it's just, for about every possible situation, there's a better trinket.

Can't say much about your gear though, you're in full DPS gear. :P
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85 Night Elf Hunter
3380
What other trinkets as a paladin would you rather use really than resolve. I mean the only other option once at CTC cap would be you main slot trinket being Indomdial pride [im bad at spelling.] and your second slot being ROD or the Heroic Beth trink. I mean there is really no other one to use. Anything else will just be wasted stats in my thought.
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100 Draenei Warrior
15645
Depends on the fight, really. Personally, I'd only use Resolve on Warmaster, and even then it's iffy. Outside of that, you want to probably be using Mirror of Broken Images, because that on-use is still amazing and is useful on about half the fights in Dragon Soul, especially Yor'sahj; Indomitable Pride, like you said, it's the best stam trinket in this tier; Stay of Execution, again for the amazing on-use, which is basically an extra Divine Protection; or Fire of the Deep, although this lessens in value once you hit the CTC cap.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9675
Okay, I have read and read and tried and tried to understand how all this works and I cannot seem to. It's okay, you can laugh of me being dumb it's really okay. But I hear people talk about this and am somewhat confused...tanks don't need to hold threat? and here is what I am working with will someone please tell me if its okay.

Armor: 42507
Dodge: 16.14%
Parry: 17.30%
Mastery: 24.77

Now am I to pay more attention to Total Avoidance percentage or the Hit Table Coverage percentage?

I have also reforged all parry to dodge and this is the best I can come up with, it seems.
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100 Draenei Warrior
15645
Tanks still need to hold threat, it's just that it's really really really easy to do so, even if you don't gear for it.

If you're referring to DefStats, it's the Hit Table Coverage that you want to get to 102.4%. The Total Avoidance is simply (If I recall correctly), your dodge + parry chance.

You're mostly on the right track in terms of gear, there's a few things I'd do differently though.
1: On your chest, reforge the dodge, not the parry. Maximising your mastery (Until 102.4%) is more important than balancing dodge/parry and you'll get more mastery that way.
2: You should only ever gem parry, mastery or stamina. Never expertise, never hit, never strength. Your weapon should have a mastery gem (The socket bonus is useless, ignore it), and until you hit 102.4%, all your gems should have mastery. Basically, provided the socket bonus is worth it (Which, when tanking, it almost always is unless it's a threat stat such as expertise or strength or hit), you should be gemming:
Red socket: Parry/Mastery Fine Ember Topaz/Fine Lava Coral
Yellow socket: Mastery (All your JCing gems should be this) Fractured Chimera's Eye/Fractured Amberjewel/Fractured Lightstone
Blue socket: Stamina/Mastery Puissant Dream Emerald/Puissant Elven Peridot.
3: I realise Soul Casket has Mastery, but seriously, just don't. Get Impetuous Query or, better yet, Mirror of Broken Images from Baradin's Wardens in Tol Barad. It's an amazingly good trinket.

Your spec and glyphs need a bit of work too, to be honest. Improved Hammer of Justice is a PvP talent and has no use in PvE. Eye for an Eye is a pretty meh talent that doesn't do much, same with Hallowed Ground and you should either have Eternal Glory or Seals of the Pure, never both. Seals is slightly better than EG, but really, you only take one of them because you have to to move further down the prot tree and they're both pretty meh talents. Pursuit of Justice (More run speed, which means you can change your boot enchant to the 50 mastery one) and Reckoning are both better talents to take.
Buuuuut most importantly. You must have Judgements of the Just. It's an essential talent. Yeah, it's slightly less useful if you have a DK in your group (They apply the same debuff) but it's miles and miles and miles better than Improved Hammer of Justice and there's no reason not to take it. And, even more importantly, you must have Ardent Defender. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to not have Ardent Defender. It's an awesome skill and you definitely should have it.
As for your glyphs, the Glyph of Seal of Truth is really nice. 10 Expertise is a lot and, while I said you don't need to gear for it, it's your best threat glyph and is definitely worth picking up. For majors, Glyph of Divinity isn't very good for prot, it's a holy glyph, and glyph of Dazing Shield is another PvP one that, while it isn't strictly bad for PvE, can be annoying when you're trying to get a caster to come over to you and it's doing so very very slowly. I'd suggest Holy Wrath (Makes it stun elementals and dragonkins, which isn't useful in this raid tier, but is really nice in 5-mans) and the other can be swapped around depending on what you need at any time. Focused Shield is good for raid bosses, Ascetic Crusader has some uses if you die, Divine Protection is nice on some bosses and so on.
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66 Gnome Rogue
0
How my gear coming for a rogue tank?
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100 Draenei Warrior
15645
You need to get more parry rating.
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85 Gnome Mage
2240
Silly Rogues. Waniou needs to keep busy answering real questions.

Waniou - how do I CTC cap as a mage? I am taking too much damage when I pull agro off of tanks.
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100 Draenei Warrior
15645
Firstly, you need 3/3 Prismatic Cloak and 2/2 Improved Blink. With Improved Blink, every time you blink, you can actually dodge the boss's melee swings by running out of their range and dodging them like that.
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Which is a better tanking spec: Demo or affliction?
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9675
Thanks so much. I'm what people call 'new' so I appreciate all the help. You've been very informative. I knew about my trinket, I just could not, for the life of me, get a better one. I finally did get my Veil of Lies.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Quick question.

For every level a mob has over you, your d/p/m/b all go down 0.2%

Is opposite also true? If im 3 levels higher than a mob will it take 2.4% LESS CTC to block cap against them?


/too lazy to test or research this.
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100 Draenei Warrior
15645
Yup.
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90 Worgen Warrior
11235
Just a bump and a thnx to op. Good info posted well.
Yay Waniou! I'll think of you next time I'm taking a punch to the face.
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90 Tauren Warrior
3265
What's more important, maintaining the Parry/Dodge balance or reforging into Mastery? Right now, my gear has me with a Parry rating about 100 over my Dodge. I'm about to get http://www.wowhead.com/item=77156/jaw-of-repudiation - should I reforge the parry into dodge (going to lose dodge going from my current piece to the jaws of repudiation) or reforge into mastery?
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