Holy Paladin Healing on 4.2 after nerfs.

85 Human Paladin
8805
After spending a small amount of time on the PTR, it's pretty plain to see holy paladins are in a world of trouble. I could even go as far as to say these changes are going to cripple our usefulness in Heroic Raid content. Our spell costs have gone up drastically and there is no compensation for it. Our divine plea still reduces out healing by 50%, our judgment is still based off of BASE mana, innervates can be completely ruled out, and mana tide has been cut in half, and after spending 5 months killing 13 heroic raid bosses this tier I still feel holy power is an extremely clunky system to try and balance a healer around.

Right now the PTR seems to be bugged as it's missing the CD reduction on Holy Radiance and Divine Protection is not giving the intended Speed of Light proc. Missing those two small buffs isn't really going to matter much though as they are just that, small buffs.

On the surface, the cool down reduction to holy radiance looks like a good thing, it really isn't going to help us all the much though. The way raid damage comes in we can do quite fine with the 30 second cool down. The type of damage holy radiance heals rarely comes more often then every 30 seconds, and when it does 20 seconds isn't going to fit in the extra non holy radiance anyway. Another problem is that mana cost of Holy radiance is still high. Casting a high mana cost spell more often when we already can't maintain casting our current bread and butter spells is just going to make the mana problem worse. Since holy paladins are also very CD based with divine favor and avenging wrath, and since we already don't have enough cool downs to ensure every holy radiance has a healing cool down tied with it on fights where we do use it on CD, the additional holy radiances that do get cast will have lower healing done than the ones we are currently casting.

Another problem is our mastery still works against our single target healing. First off, the shields are too small, the amount that it absorbs is not useful enough to save a life and what little bit it does prevent could easily have been healed up by a number of passive or smart heal spells like holy radiance, healing rain, circle of healing, light of dawn, etc... When we cast on top of our same target more than once the shield effect is wasted since it doesn't stack. When we make good use of our mastery it's effectively little more than a heal snipe and a worthless gain to HPS. On top of all that, the spells that do get an effect from mastery now costs considerably more.

Our 4.2 2 pc set bonus also works against us now. When we heal on top of the beacon we effectively loose 50% of our healing throughput, and with the increase in spell costs we are going to need all the throughput we can find. The 2 pc just does NOT provide enough mana return to justify loosing 50% of our heal. We will actually save MORE mana by NOT healing on top of our beacon than by healing on top of the beacon because we will have to heal less often to get the same amount of throughput. This is just really backwards thinking.

You can't really argue the mana nerfs are to make up for the "buff" to crits. First off, no other healer has had their mana costs increased this patch, and holy paladins really don't get much a of a benefit from crit. The only benefit we get from crit is conviction, and once we can keep it up 100% of the time there is little need to have more crit. The huge increase in spells costs are going to make conviction harder to keep up since we will not be able to cast as much as we used to. Holy paladins are still the masters of over heal. Our beacon, protector of the innocent, enlightened judgments, and large heals all tend to over heal and hence, suffer from crit stacking. If we try and wait for a person to take a bit more damage so we can take advantage of a crit heal one of two things will happen, either another healer who can afford to waste mana will get the injured person first, or they will die from the next hit they receive. Of all the healers, holy paladins will feel the double crit "buff" least of all.

I would really like to hear what Blizzard's intentions with Holy paladins are. Does Blizzard just not realize how we heal in raids? If so can Blizzard please talk to some of us that do heal in raids? If you want us to heal a certain way it would be nice if we knew what it was. As it stand now, I've had to relearn how to heal as a holy paladin at least 5 times since 4.0.1 came out. It's getting really old.
90 Human Paladin
11260
Holy Power - I so much want it removed, same bacon, bring back Illumination, make paladins back paladins. And a big bump, I don't think there are too many holy paladins left to voice the big disappointment that we became in Cata.
Edited by Xcentrik on 5/11/2011 4:48 PM PDT
85 Human Death Knight
5280
This post hit the nail on the head. I agree completely, the holy paladin is becoming so awkward, and is starting to be forced to heal in a way that is just completely ridiculous. I don't why they are trying to imply with the 2pc T12 that your supposed to just completely ignore the beacon of light's main purpose and instead use it as a mana regen/holy power generator. Like Cruisecho said your losing 50% of your healing throughput by the way they're suggesting we heal. Would you ask an olympic runner to run on one leg and then tell him it would make him go faster?
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15140
Looking for a 2nd thumbs up button.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6345
05/11/2011 04:54 PMPosted by Tranquildeth
I don't why they are trying to imply with the 2pc T12 that your supposed to just completely ignore the beacon of light's main purpose and instead use it as a mana regen/holy power generator.


Considering this path, I wish they'd just remove Beacon of Light and rebalance Paladins around not having. It's an archaic band-aid design from when they refused to give Paladins AoE heals. Just fix our AoE heals, remove Beacon, and compensate for the loss of Beacon with improved single-target healing, or by bringing back some kind of improved version of the old Sacred Shield.
85 Human Paladin
12220
05/11/2011 05:02 PMPosted by Albinosmurfs
can we stop making more of these? theres already 4 pally qq threads that say the exact same thing...


Yes, and if Holy Priests were given an unneeded nerf the same thing would happen. It's a matter of principle, and there has yet to be a blue response even describing why these nerfs were implemented.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5730
Just report his posts for trolling and spamming. The forum ban will take care of him.

Also I agree 100% with the OP. Good post.
85 Human Paladin
5915
I think Paladins would be more agreeable to the raised mana costs if all healers were suffering from the same issue.

As it stands the Druid Innervate nerf does not affect self innervates.
Shaman testing is broken right now since the talent isn't working correct but based upon the talent description a Shaman will net gain mana from Healing Wave and gain 34% mana back from GHW (which is better than Illumination before they finally wiped it out due to concerns of being overbalanced, dramatic irony there?)
And Priests haven't been touched yet.

As it stands Paladins all over are looking at the doll and pointing to the places that Ghostcrawler touched.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5730
05/11/2011 05:32 PMPosted by Stryhf
And Priests haven't been touched yet.


Yet they get arguably the most powerful 2pc t12 bonus of any healer and we get the worst.
Edited by Judginater on 5/11/2011 5:41 PM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
05/11/2011 05:02 PMPosted by Albinosmurfs
can we stop making more of these? theres already 4 pally qq threads that say the exact same thing...


Hahahaha i remember the priest qq, it was everywhere
10-12 threads wanting paladins nerfed!
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5730
They are when 5% is a 20% increase. It's all about perspective, of which you have none.
100 Gnome Priest
8745
Just report his posts for trolling and spamming. The forum ban will take care of him.

Also I agree 100% with the OP. Good post.


Not trolling. There are already 4 posts on this one page of the exact same topic as this. I'm all for you guys having your QQ threads but lets limit the number of threads because it just gums up the forums for the rest of us.

Edit: this nerf won't even make a dent in pally healing since there are obviously changes in 4.2 that require these changes...
Edited by Albinosmurfs on 5/11/2011 5:52 PM PDT
85 Human Paladin
12220
05/11/2011 05:49 PMPosted by Sivalis
5% and lower cost increases are not "drastic." Hyperbole does not help you here, nor is the sky falling.


You obviously don't do much healing on a paladin.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6345
05/11/2011 05:40 PMPosted by Judginater
And Priests haven't been touched yet.


Yet they get arguably the most powerful 2pc t12 bonus of any healer and we get the worst.


That's not true. Holy Priests rarely cast Heal, Greater Heal, or Flash Heal, and even Disc Priests are often assigned to raid healing where they used more PW:S and PoH.

Besides, Resto Druid and Resto Shaman 2pc T12 is basically passive MP5, when compared to the Pally and Priest one.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5730
That's not true. Holy Priests rarely cast Heal, Greater Heal, or Flash Heal, and even Disc Priests are often assigned to raid healing where they used more PW:S and PoH.


I think you'll find it IS true. And the argument that they don't currently cast those spells much is moot since you WILL cast those spells at least once every 15 sec to keep the buff up.
85 Human Paladin
5915

That's not true. Holy Priests rarely cast Heal, Greater Heal, or Flash Heal, and even Disc Priests are often assigned to raid healing where they used more PW:S and PoH.

Besides, Resto Druid and Resto Shaman 2pc T12 is basically passive MP5, when compared to the Pally and Priest one.


Priest one is the most consistent, but it won't scale.

Druid and Shaman should scale with haste, more ticks = more chances. Both should be on all the time due to normal play, and don't require "awkward" changes or maintenance above and beyond their normal healing cycles.

Druid one has the benefit of scaling upwards with ToL + LB spam that also synergistic with their 4pc bonus. More regen chances when you're consuming more mana. That is unless there's an ICD added to the proc chance.
Edited by Stryhf on 5/11/2011 6:01 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
It's not just mana costs for Paladins, keep in mind in 4.2:

- Mana Tide is halved
- Innervate on others, instead of being 20% of the caster's mana pool, is 5% of the recipient's mana pool (this is great if you have tons of feral druids, awful otherwise)

This means a huge mana crutch just got kicked out from under Paladins, simultaneous with mana cost increases to all their spells.

It is the combination of the two that is so harsh. Granted stuff like the tide change is going to be misery for everyone, but it's compounded for Paladins by other changes.
Edited by Charsi on 5/11/2011 6:16 PM PDT
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