Holy Paladin Healing on 4.2 after nerfs.

100 Dwarf Paladin
21125
I too am also quite worried about the state of paladins next patch.

Remove Beacon and PotI. Balance the paladin class accordingly in AoE and single target healing. Is it really such a difficult task?

The Mana Tide nerf, in addition, just means that raids will be more likely to drop paladins for shaman.
85 Dwarf Paladin
7025
05/11/2011 06:20 PMPosted by Eloderung
The Mana Tide nerf, in addition, just means that raids will be more likely to drop paladins for shaman.
I assume you mean because they need twice the shaman to pull off an equal amount of mana return?

Something about all this whining over mana and set bonuses makes me think a few weeks into 4.2 a lot of people will start to rethink all of their usual grievances against Mastery (and certainly Crit with the change to 200% effect).
100 Blood Elf Paladin
17145
4.2 is just gonna be pallies filling the first page of healing forums for a month or two with no responses. better off going prot since holy is broken till at the least 5.0 and blizz would rather make shamans a better choice. sad to see how much they dont care about bring the player not the class
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8685
I dont see how you guys think holy paladins are broken at the moment. To be fair we are down with resto shamans in healing for PvE, but Resto Druids and Priests aren't that far ahead.

With the possible nerfs coming in 4.2, I believe that the increased mana cost is their to counteract the getting more gear and being able to use 30k mana before you have to plea to get back up to full.

People who are testing this stuff on the PTR need to stop complaining about the mana problems with t11 gear. These nerfs are suppose to be based around T12 gear not T11.

For the AoE Healing situation, I do believe we need a slight buff in this case. Bringing back a slight buff to Light of Dawn would be nice, and I think that Holy Radience CD should be brought down to 25 seconds. This happening with the Holy Radience CD would only allow one more Holy Radience every 3 minutes, which wouldn't be too much of a buff to PvE or PvP.

As for Healing heroic encounters, I don't see how you guys think that Holy Paladins are close to even not useful in Heroic encounters. Yes our top healing spot from WoTLK went down because of the Beacon change but we also can't just spam Holy Light anymore. For example about paladins healing effeciency and healing effeciency, the first time I killed Heroic Nefarian I had a little over 50% mana at the end of the fight and i was 2nd on healing with a resto druid/disc priest, using my cooldowns to my best knowledge and keeping contact with others healers to use my mana cooldowns with Divine Hymn and such to get more mana back during the extra mana i was being given.
Edited by Vanelz on 5/12/2011 12:11 AM PDT
28 Gnome Mage
320
does blizz even play their own game?

recently 600k of blizzards 12 million player-base quit the game (It now stands at 11.4 million and decreasing with this new expansion). i wouldn't be surprised if they were all holy paladins to be honest. The amount of nerfs is ridiculous. i've given up on looking up patch notes every tuesday because i know all they're going to bring is yet another holy paladin nerf. So what does blizzard need to do? start to fix their classes before they carry on about a 7 boss raid tier.

PEACE
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11470

People who are testing this stuff on the PTR need to stop complaining about the mana problems with t11 gear. These nerfs are suppose to be based around T12 gear not T11.


This is just an incredibly terrible argument. We will all be healing in the new content with tier 11 gear if these nerfs go live. Beyond that, there will be holy paladins healing in dungeon blues with these nerfs. Saying that it will be fine because we will eventually have better gear isn't reasonable.
90 Night Elf Druid
19510
The only point I really agree with is your argument that your 2pc bonus should be changed. That actually makes a lot of sense since it seems silly to me that the rest of us only have to make minor accommodations (I realize as a Druid my regen is automatic, however I'll have to make sure to use a direct healing spell every 10 seconds to benefit from Harmony) whereas a Holy Paladin has to literally do 50% less healing.

The rest of the changes really aren't that bad, after one tier of content we're already at the point where mana is almost at irrelevant again. The changes to Mana Tide and Innervate are necessary, and if Blizzard feels your spells should be adjusted slightly upward, it's probably to compensate for the new Crit-Heal mechanic.

Edit: I'm working under the premise that your mastery is either going to be overhauled or redesigned. If they do in fact leave your mastery as worthless as it is now... Yeah reroll this expansion.
Edited by Eadoin on 5/12/2011 2:50 AM PDT
85 Tauren Priest
7365
Not sure why paladins are getting a regen nerf when they aren't overpowered to begin with.
85 Human Paladin
3280
05/11/2011 05:06 PMPosted by Ggx
can we stop making more of these? theres already 4 pally qq threads that say the exact same thing...


Yes, and if Holy Priests were given an unneeded nerf the same thing would happen. It's a matter of principle, and there has yet to be a blue response even describing why these nerfs were implemented.

I'm fairly certain they were (or, are going to be) implemented to compensate for the amount of intellect and spirit we'll be gaining from Firelands loot. They are trying to ensure we remain worried about our mana and don't get to a point where we only judge once a minute for Judgements of the Pure and can spam Divine Light the entire fight.

If we remain unchanged, with heals costing exactly the same now as in T13 content, then we'll reach a point were we essentially have infinite mana and can spam as we please without rhyme or reason. So they have to nerf us eventually. I'd personally prefer to take 2 staggered nerfs over 1 large nerf later.
85 Human Paladin
3675
I'm glad I quit this paladin 2 weeks after cata.
85 Human Paladin
3280

People who are testing this stuff on the PTR need to stop complaining about the mana problems with t11 gear. These nerfs are suppose to be based around T12 gear not T11.
.



History shows that the bad stuff that is on the PTR usually goes live unless lots of people DO complain, and even then it usually gets rammed through. Even then people on the side of Blizzard say "Well its only been live for a few days/weeks.months stop your whining"

Because putting faith in blizzard has worked out so well so far when it comes to HP's

They are complaining about the mana for which the change isn't intended. The change is in preparation for T12 gear. Yes, it'll hamper us and make us have to play smarter and more mana conservative but is that really a bad thing? Do you seriously not like thinking and being tested in your mana management capabilities, and only wish to spam things wildly with reckless abandon? If so, I pity you.

This is just an incredibly terrible argument. We will all be healing in the new content with tier 11 gear if these nerfs go live. Beyond that, there will be holy paladins healing in dungeon blues with these nerfs. Saying that it will be fine because we will eventually have better gear isn't reasonable.

5mans are honestly a snoozefest, and have been so or quite some time. Once people began to know how to properly play (for the most part, since some people are still terrible) at 85, they became immensely easier. I personally had no mana problems EVER in 5mans when I first hit 85 and was healing heroics with 333 gear. And this was with PUGs, not guild runs.
Edited by Crysth on 5/12/2011 6:26 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Priest
3400
Divine Light will be moving from the most efficient big heal, to the second most efficient big heal.

Completely naked, smallest possible big heals in order:

Divine Light 4.1 (30% BM or 7027) 11,100 Healing, 1.58 HPM
GHeal (27% or 5559) 8,362 healing, 1.5 HPM
Divine Light 4.2 (35% or 8197) 11,100 healing, 1.35 HPM
HT (30% or 5591) 7,211 healing, 1.29 HPM
GHW (33% or 7732) 8,968 healing, 1.16 HPM

Obviously, gear choices and talents are going to bump all of those numbers. Shaman and druid both get 25% more healing from spec. Holy priests get 15, pallies get 10. Disc priests get 15% int.

However, after all those, pally big heal is still the biggest little big heal on the block. But congrats to shaman for breaking into five digits!

Now, you can argue about lack of aoe healing, clunky holy power mechanics, and the rest of pally griefs, if you want to, but this change doesn't change any of that, it only effects mana cost on direct heals. And I don't think the sky is falling quite as fast as you think it is.
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