Holy Paladin Healing on 4.2 after nerfs.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
We increased paladin mana costs because they were too efficient at healing. In raid encounters, for instance, paladins were sitting at 40% of their mana while the other healers were flat out of mana. Paladins were casting Divine Light as their main heal because they didn’t need the efficiency of Holy Light. You personally may not have been in that situation, but when looking at the overall picture, as well as running plenty of tests, this was our conclusion overall. It is entirely possible this will hurt Holy paladins in PvP, where mana can be harder to come by. It is our hope that the recent Speed of Light change as well as another change or two coming will help offset that.

We did not make these mana cost changes because of the change to critical heals or because of any upcoming set bonuses (which are still being designed, by the way). We made the changes only because paladins were too efficient compared to druids, priests and shaman.

As a postscript, we see a lot of paladins advocating a strategy of Beacon the tank, heal the off-tank with Divine Light, and never ever do anything else... and if you ever heal the Beacon target, you fail. That’s just not a realistic goal. Stuff is going to happen that is unpredictable, or else you’d probably win every fight. You should make the most of Beacon, absolutely. It’s a great tool. But you shouldn’t consider anything that doesn’t maximize Beacon to be a class design or personal performance failure. Sometimes you’re going to want to heal the Beacon target directly. It happens.


Paladins will ALWAYS try to maximize Beacon. Right now it's the only thing we have going for us. Without it, we're a priest without circle of healing. A druid without hots. A shaman without Mana Tide.

When will you admit that Beacon is the problem?
85 Dwarf Paladin
5150
I don't mean to sound stupid, but how does moving faster offset our mana efficiency or lack there of? Moving away from the target weakens radiance, and is STILL a ton of mana. I mean, we have 1 ability that gives us mana, and it hits us for -50% healing. Shamans, and priests, in fact gain mana from their mana restore abilities and do not lose any. We gain mana from judgement, but use some to judge. We gain mana from DP but we lose 50% healing and in essence have to cast 2 heals now to gain the effect of one. I just wonder where the clarification is on how a paladin is to heal NOW with a shorter CD on our highest mana cost spell, and an increase mana cost to ALL our healing spells.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
05/12/2011 08:49 PMPosted by Plux
I simply believe its too soon to assume that the changes announced are going to go through exactly as currently implemented with no attention to Holy Pallies' weak standing in PvP, especially since Zarhym has not-so-subtly alluded to incoming Pally PvP buffs in this very post.


No, shammys were qqing about it aswell in 4.1
Edited by Josémourinho on 5/12/2011 8:53 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16170
so more shaman buffs and pally nerfs this patch, good thing my mage is 85
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7805
because people cry like lil baby about pally all time pally this pally that just stop screwing us all the time please stop it please
90 Dwarf Paladin
10890
so you say this is a pve change......
•Flash of Light mana cost has been increased to 31% of base mana, up from 27%.

WHY IN THE BEEJESUS WOULD YOU DO THIS!?!?! Might as well use freaking consecration, at least its more efficient at draining your mana. I honestly cannot remember using FoL A SINGLE time in the last........3 patches?....in a pve setting. this ONLY affects pvp. change it back or admit you are changing it for pvp.

•Holy Light mana cost has been increased to 12% of base mana, up from 10%.
•Divine Light mana cost has been increased to 35% of base mana, up from 30%.

so you want us to use holy light more........lets do some math. my holy light heals for roughly 10k. my divine light hits for 30k.

so....tank takes damage.(4.1)
holy light x3. 10k+10k+10k=30k in ~6 seconds for 30% base mana
divine light x1. 30k in 2 seconds for 30% base mana
ABOUT EQUAL, ok i get it, smoother healing, less overhealing.

so....tank takes damage.(4.2)
holy light x3. 10k+10k+10k=30k in ~6 seconds for 36% base mana
divine light x1. 30k in 2 seconds for 35% base mana
YA MADE IT WORSE!??!?!?!?!!? and you want us to stick with HL!?!?!?!! someone PLEASE explain this. make holy like play with tower of radiance again and ill think about it.

and please remove mastery from our freaking tier gear. ITS GARBAGE.

ps... so on my server heals are tough to find. i wonder why. you are making it stupid. if the other classes arent as mana efficient, BUFF THEM! leave us ALONE. as pallies we have been screwed around with enough.


(edited for angry language)
Edited by Shatlaraaz on 5/12/2011 8:57 PM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
Og
8430
Druid is the one who doesn't go oom and do absurd amount of healing.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6345
05/12/2011 08:49 PMPosted by Wasselin
When will you admit that Beacon is the problem?


I still think Beacon of Light was somebodies beloved pet project and they refuse to believe it has caused major balance issues since it's inception.

Beacon of Light was the reason Paladins were required for raids in WotLK. Beacon of Light is the reason Paladins can't be brought in line with other healers in Cata.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5085
I see some good things in this... with the possibility of the set bonus being changed, and new changes to help PvP... but quite a few things bothered me.

1)
As a postscript, we see a lot of paladins advocating a strategy of Beacon the tank, heal the off-tank with Divine Light, and never ever do anything else... and if you ever heal the Beacon target, you fail.

What a bad, and really obnoxious generalization. Only bad holys ignore the beacon target. If they are in trouble, chunk a heal. Nor is DL the only heal we should cast (but it IS the best in many many cases).

2)
But you shouldn’t consider anything that doesn’t maximize Beacon to be a class design or personal performance failure.

But... it IS a class design failure. Holy is balanced (in a raid and pvp setting) around beacon. Beacon allows us to put our attention on another target while keeping the beacon target alive in most cases. This gives us a sort of multi-target/shield mechanic. If we can't rely on it to keep them up with little attention... why have it? If we have to constantly heal the beacon target to keep them or our mana up... that's bad design. If we have to heal in a way that is below our maximum potential... that is bad design.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
Og
8430
Also no one uses healing wave, heal, and nourish in pve ever. Only paladin uses holy light when damage isn't that high.

We don't use flash of light in PVE either, so why increase the mana cost again?
90 Pandaren Shaman
8455
Shamans, and priests, in fact gain mana from their mana restore abilities and do not lose any. .


You mean MTT...which also benefits you?
TC? Which does cost us mana.
Resurgence? At max return it's still less mana than Judging Insight.
You also have DP and as a last resort melee Insight procs.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
05/12/2011 08:56 PMPosted by Algamarion
What a bad, and really obnoxious generalization. Only bad holys ignore the beacon target. If they are in trouble, chunk a heal. Nor is DL the only heal we should cast (but it IS the best in many many cases).


I ignore my beacon target on certain fights because i'm assigned to another tank and the beacon is there to help out but if it needs healing at any time i'll switch to it!

Chimereon is one fight where i ignore my beacon (its on the main tank not the DA offtank)
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
05/12/2011 08:55 PMPosted by Deveo
When will you admit that Beacon is the problem?


I still think Beacon of Light was somebodies beloved pet project and they refuse to believe it has caused major balance issues since it's inception.

Beacon of Light was the reason Paladins were required for raids in WotLK. Beacon of Light is the reason Paladins can't be brought in line with other healers in Cata.


Yeah. Beacon makes paladin the different healer. Somehow it let's the developers think that they haven't completely homogenized healers.

Healing the beacon target or the off tank, I mean in the "wow I'm having fun" scheme of things what does it matter? It's the same thing.

If blizzard doesn't want us to be the dual-tank healer then beacon has NO purpose. If they would instead give us spells that would allow us to be answer the raid leader with "I'll heal the raid," then there problems with 'balancing' paladins with the other healers would me so much simpler. AND playing a paladin would be so much more fun.

Pride. Such a destructive sin.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6345
Another note:

05/12/2011 08:07 PMPosted by Zarhym
Paladins were casting Divine Light as their main heal because they didn’t need the efficiency of Holy Light.


You know why Paladins spam Divine Light? Because they don't really have another option of a spell to cast, particularly in AoE situations.

If the tank takes a big hit, what does a Paladin do? Cast Divine Light. If the raid takes a big hit, what does the Paladin do? Cast Divine Light.

If the tank takes a big hit, what does a Holy Priest do? Cast Greater Heal. If the raid tank a big hit, what does a Holy Priest do? Cast Prayer of Healing.

Funny side note...I don't even have Heal, Healing Wave, or Nourish on my cast bars for my other healers. And they aren't even particularly well geared. Those spells aren't needed because of the regen model that was created (max mana based effects, Int increasing Spirit regen), in addition to them just being terrible spells. I use my efficient heal *way* more often on my Paladin. And if you wanted us to use our efficient heal more...why did you raise its mana cost too?

If blizzard doesn't want us to be the dual-tank healer then beacon has NO purpose. If they would instead give us spells that would allow us to be answer the raid leader with "I'll heal the raid," then there problems with 'balancing' paladins with the other healers would me so much simpler. AND playing a paladin would be so much more fun.


It's that lack of versatility that makes Paladin hard for me to play, especially when the other healers have that versatility. When a situation arises, it's either a situation my Paladin can handle effortlessly (two tanks), or that he struggles far more than he should with (one tank + heavy raid damage).

If my raid didn't need Blessing of Kings, I would bring my Priest just to have the piece of mind that encounters won't vary wildly in how well I can handle them merely based on the number of tanks.
Edited by Deveo on 5/12/2011 9:13 PM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
05/12/2011 09:07 PMPosted by Atrahasis


You mean MTT...which also benefits you?
TC? Which does cost us mana.
Resurgence? At max return it's still less mana than Judging Insight.
You also have DP and as a last resort melee Insight procs.


Interesting, you have math to back up resurgence being weaker than insight?


He assumes you judge every 8 seconds practically which can be impractible in some hard modes :\
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