Holy Paladin Healing on 4.2 after nerfs.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
5085
I ignore my beacon target on certain fights because i'm assigned to another tank and the beacon is there to help out but if it needs healing at any time i'll switch to it!

Chimereon is one fight where i ignore my beacon (its on the main tank not the DA offtank


In your first scenario, you AREN'T ignoring your beacon target. The way the floating skull phrased it seemed to me "beacon target a, tunnel vision DL spam target b". As for Chimereon, healing is just wacky on that fight. I can see ignoring the main tank, because 1 heal with get them above the 10k mark 90% of the time.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6795
05/12/2011 08:07 PMPosted by Zarhym
We increased paladin mana costs because they were too efficient at healing.

What changed between now and the 4.1 mana cost reductions?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
I ignore my beacon target on certain fights because i'm assigned to another tank and the beacon is there to help out but if it needs healing at any time i'll switch to it!

Chimereon is one fight where i ignore my beacon (its on the main tank not the DA offtank


In your first scenario, you AREN'T ignoring your beacon target. The way the floating skull phrased it seemed to me "beacon target a, tunnel vision DL spam target b". As for Chimereon, healing is just wacky on that fight. I can see ignoring the main tank, because 1 heal with get them above the 10k mark 90% of the time.


I said he had a point but the blue is still very wrong for every other fights besides jokemerion. Ie. You have a better point that applies more than his
Edited by Josémourinho on 5/12/2011 9:14 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Priest
6345
05/12/2011 09:11 PMPosted by Anohako
We increased paladin mana costs because they were too efficient at healing.

What changed between now and the 4.1 mana cost reductions?


Maybe the Paladin lead lost a bet. <_<
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5085
I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing out you were better than you (might have) thought you were XD.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
05/12/2011 09:16 PMPosted by Algamarion
I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing out you were better than you (might have) thought you were XD.


I think they must of been testing this ignoring beacon stuff on Chimereon there is NO other fight that i can possibly think of where i can ignore my beacon target completely.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11065
05/12/2011 08:07 PMPosted by Zarhym
In raid encounters, for instance, paladins were sitting at 40% of their mana while the other healers were flat out of mana.


Where are you seeing results like this? I've been finishing kills of Cho'gall, Nefarian, and heroic Halfus with no mana left, myself.

The personal abilities that paladins have to recover more mana are sort of feast or famine. When content is easy, we can judge often and divine plea without worry, but we probably didn't really need the mana. When content is hard, we need the mana but have less available. If you only look at paladins doing easy content, you're going to get the wrong picture.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6345
Btw, Anohako, I think we may have the reason why Blizzard felt we were "undervaluing" Mastery. They think we're spending most of our time directly healing the Beacon of Light target.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
05/12/2011 09:20 PMPosted by Deveo
Btw, Anohako, I think we may have the reason why Blizzard felt we were "undervaluing" Mastery. They think we're spending most of our time directly healing the Beacon of Light target.


You might be right lol.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6795
05/12/2011 09:20 PMPosted by Deveo
Btw, Anohako, I think we may have the reason why Blizzard felt we were "undervaluing" Mastery. They think we're spending most of our time directly healing the Beacon of Light target.

That makes Holy Power make more sense too! If only playing that way were the best way to play :(
85 Dwarf Paladin
11610
You know why Paladins spam Divine Light? Because they don't really have another option of a spell to cast, particularly in AoE situations.

If the tank takes a big hit, what does a Paladin do? Cast Divine Light. If the raid takes a big hit, what does the Paladin do? Cast Divine Light.

If the tank takes a big hit, what does a Holy Priest do? Cast Greater Heal. If the raid tank a big hit, what does a Holy Priest do? Cast Prayer of Healing.


I was basically about to say the same thing. And the big reason we spam divine light is because its basically a holy light but 3x stronger for about the same about of mana as 3 holy lights as someone pointed out earlier. Hell... for any situation you cast holy light, you can probably just divine light once and cut out 3 holy lights, unless the divine light is going to overheal. Holy light is really only used in situations so we don't overheal.

Really if they want us to Divine Light less, then increase its mana cost and decrease the mana costs on holy light and flash of light and holy shock. Cause in reality, these mana cost changes aren't going to change the way we heal at all.
Edited by Dwarfmember on 5/12/2011 9:26 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
8455


He assumes you judge every 8 seconds practically which can be impractible in some hard modes :\


I figured that was his assumption. Combined with the fact that it only scales with BASE mana, it will only get weaker and weaker as time goes by.


I'm aware of the scaling. I'm talking about 4.2 because as you can see...things can radically change in the future.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16275
Umm my main concern here would be that healers are going to end up to mana efficient again at the end of the tier when everyone is in 391 gear, and what about at the end of t13 with ilvl 410 gear? will Blizzard nerf healers again? and then what about with ilvl 430 gear from deathwing?

At this point where healer regen is balanced around healers with full ilvl 430 gear -- how exactly is a new healer in 329 gear suppose to heal tier 1 heroics? Especially if the current model is used where the mana cost of spells is just increased?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6795


What changed between now and the 4.1 mana cost reductions?


Maybe the Paladin lead lost a bet. <_<

Well, what about two months previous when they increased mana costs in 4.0.6 before they decreased them in 4.1 before increasing them in 4.2?
Edited by Anohako on 5/12/2011 9:34 PM PDT
43 Dwarf Hunter
310
Sorry for a newblike question, but what exactly is so bad about healing your beacon target? I'm sure there's an obvious reason that's staring me in the face, but I can't see it atm.. Your beacon target still receives the additional 50% healing on top of the normal heal, and you're generating an additional holy power every time you DL him, right?

I don't get how 150% heal on a single target + 1 holy power per DL cast is any worse than 100% on the other tank + 50% on the beacon tank, which still = 150%? Would greatly appreciate enlightenment.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
We increased paladin mana costs because they were too efficient at healing. In raid encounters, for instance, paladins were sitting at 40% of their mana while the other healers were flat out of mana. Paladins were casting Divine Light as their main heal because they didn’t need the efficiency of Holy Light. You personally may not have been in that situation, but when looking at the overall picture, as well as running plenty of tests, this was our conclusion overall. It is entirely possible this will hurt Holy paladins in PvP, where mana can be harder to come by. It is our hope that the recent Speed of Light change as well as another change or two coming will help offset that.

We did not make these mana cost changes because of the change to critical heals or because of any upcoming set bonuses (which are still being designed, by the way). We made the changes only because paladins were too efficient compared to druids, priests and shaman.

As a postscript, we see a lot of paladins advocating a strategy of Beacon the tank, heal the off-tank with Divine Light, and never ever do anything else... and if you ever heal the Beacon target, you fail. That’s just not a realistic goal. Stuff is going to happen that is unpredictable, or else you’d probably win every fight. You should make the most of Beacon, absolutely. It’s a great tool. But you shouldn’t consider anything that doesn’t maximize Beacon to be a class design or personal performance failure. Sometimes you’re going to want to heal the Beacon target directly. It happens.


I find this really hard to believe. Yes its true that a paladin can spam DL at high gear levels... but priests can spam CoH... shamans CH... druids rolling hots are just insane at the moment (which is why their mastery got nerfed). Paladins have nothing else to use.

The nerf is too much... at high gear levels its probably not going to be felt too terribly much. But at low gear levels its going to hurt, badly. Remove the innervate and MTT reliance (as you have) and paladins are going to be hurting. Priests and other classes can readily spam other spells to aoe heal and dump mana. Paladins can't. We're also being pushed more and more towards a tank healing role with the changes and the way we're scaling. The HR change will help a TON with that but not if we can't keep our mana up...
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6795
Sorry for a newblike question, but what exactly is so bad about healing your beacon target? I'm sure there's an obvious reason that's staring me in the face, but I can't see it atm.. Your beacon target still receives the additional 50% healing on top of the normal heal, and you're generating an additional holy power every time you DL him, right?

It's because the part I bolded isn't true.
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