[PvE] Frost Mage Guide - 4.1

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85 Blood Elf Mage
8405

(and OMG I'M ALL PURPLE NOW <33333)


I noticed that yesterday afternoon, grats! It also seemed like you turned female for a couple hours in the afternoon... but I might have just been hallucinating. =x
85 Troll Mage
9365

(and OMG I'M ALL PURPLE NOW <33333)


I noticed that yesterday afternoon, grats! It also seemed like you turned female for a couple hours in the afternoon... but I might have just been hallucinating. =x


Yeah, it was because I logged out after using the Kalytha's Haunted Locket.
100 Draenei Mage
8755
Anyone else feel like frost may drop off the map in 4.3 once the 4 piece is overtaken? In coordination with recent sims, frost (unlike now) actually won't be our top single target spec (and definitely not AoE). Any thoughts on this?

If you wanted to see a single increase, where would you put it?

For me:
-Increase the damage of Deep Freeze by 25%
-Increase the proc chance of FFB by 5%

85 Troll Mage
9365
Restore our 6 points of mastery that vanished. Frost is already OP in pvp, why not let them be moreso?

A Frostbolt buff would be nice too, along with an increased proc chance for BF. Not sure I like buffing DF damage though. I don't need more lost damage when I have to stun an add instead of dealing 110k damage.

I've stopped worrying about 4.3. Looking at MoP, it feels like 4.3 is already over.
2 Human Mage
0
I really can't understand why they aren't buffing Blizzard. There is no chance for PVP side effects. Is it really they think our AoEing is just too simple/boring and therefore shouldn't deal good damage? Despite the fact they are the ones that made it so simple and boring... and many other classes/specs can do amazing AoE damage also spamming 1 spell.. *cough* feral cats, shadow priests *cough*.

I really don't think we should have to wait until the next Xpac's AoE revamp just to be able to deal good AoE damage... t13 encounters look to be even more heavily focused on multitargeting, multidotting, etc. At least give us a stopgap measure to tide us over until 5.0. Hell, they even buffed BM exotic pet AoE damage in the latest PTR update...
Edited by Incéndiary on 10/28/2011 9:01 AM PDT
100 Draenei Mage
8755
I really can't understand why they aren't buffing Blizzard. There is no chance for PVP side effects. Is it really they think our AoEing is just too simple/boring and therefore shouldn't deal good damage? Despite the fact they are the ones that made it so simple and boring... and many other classes/specs can do amazing AoE damage also spamming 1 spell.. *cough* feral cats, shadow priests *cough*.

I really don't think we should have to wait until the next Xpac's AoE revamp just to be able to deal good AoE damage... t13 encounters look to be even more heavily focused on multitargeting, multidotting, etc. At least give us a stopgap measure to tide us over until 5.0. Hell, they even buffed BM exotic pet AoE damage in the latest PTR update...


Yeah i am starting to get worried. The last few updates have had no new mage changes, and they are starting to get really "honed" and specific with their changes. I really hope they don't overlook some obvious things that need to be changed for us.

If they think Arcane and Frost don't need any changes....i would be speechless.
90 Goblin Priest
8405
10/28/2011 08:55 AMPosted by Incéndiary
many other classes/specs can do amazing AoE damage also spamming 1 spell.. *cough* feral cats, shadow priests *cough*.


My main is a shadow priest and to be fair, we aren't exactly a one button AoE spec. It's really more akin to Arcane AoE. Mind Sear does decent damage by itself, but if you have the Empowering Shadows buff we get from using Mind Blast with an orb up, it'll do even more damage to the point where it can get ridiculous.

That said, I absolutely agree with you in regards to Blizzard. Blizzard seems to be in the same situation as Hurricane for Balance druids, but boomkins at least have other options. They can do sunfire and mushroom spam while in a solar eclipse and do insane AoE damage. Blizzard is all we frost mages have really, so it really needs the buff. I don't even care that much about mana cost tbh. Sure it'd be nice, but having it cost less mana isn't going to make it do more damage.
85 Blood Elf Mage
8405
Whoops. Meant to post that on my mage, not my priest. >.>
2 Human Mage
0
10/28/2011 01:33 PMPosted by Popina
My main is a shadow priest and to be fair, we aren't exactly a one button AoE spec. It's really more akin to Arcane AoE. Mind Sear does decent damage by itself, but if you have the Empowering Shadows buff we get from using Mind Blast with an orb up, it'll do even more damage to the point where it can get ridiculous.


I guess you can look at that as 'setup', just like Arcane uses 4x AB to strengthen AExp, or a Cat uses Savage Roar/Berserk/Tiger's Fury for Swipe. Frost's equivalent setup would be setting up shatter with pet Freeze, Nova, Imp CoC, or RoF to boost Blizzard damage. The problem is all those forms of Freeze break too easily when other people are damaging the mobs too. It'd be like Empowered Shadows lasting 1 second before it expired, and your Mind Sear damage without it wasn't 'decent' but 'laughable'. This is not even mentioning that Mind Sear follows your target (or you can even target your tanks/melee), which Blizzard doesn't at all. How's the mana cost on Mind Sear @85? My priest is only level 57 and hasn't gotten the spell yet :P
Edited by Incéndiary on 10/28/2011 3:22 PM PDT
85 Blood Elf Mage
8405
Yeah, I get your point I just wanted to clarify that shadow priests don't really have a one button AoE rotation. =x Plus I don't know anything about feral druids, so I wasn't sure if they actually do or not.

Mana cost is pretty significant. If I don't watch it I can run out of mana doing spiderlings on Beth. I'd guestimate that it's roughly equivalent to Blizzard, but I'd have to actually look at the tool tips to be able to say for sure.
100 Draenei Mage
8755
I'm of the opinion that stationary channeled AoE's should have the highest dps per mob because of the severe drawbacks. There isn't one fight in the current tier that involves stationary AoE. (I.E. lings move, rhyo adds, rag adds).

Of course they'd have to buff blizzard by at least 100% for that to be a reality (lolswipe), which won't happen. I'm simply concerned because their recent changes imply they are "polishing" the changes, which indicates no more major ones. man i miss blizzard in wrath.
85 Human Priest
10900
It seems like a mechanic problem. Well it's a number problem too I guess, but fixing numbers won't make it much better on a bunch of encounters that aren't at all friendly to the spell. I think they should make more encounters that require aoe have mostly stationary aoe packs. Not ones where you and/or the adds remain still the entire time, but rather ones where you and the adds aren't moving quite frequently enough that you can't channel a Blizzard into them. Although sometimes you got screwed from getting targeted by sludge repeatedly, maloriak's vile swills were a good example where proper placement of a targeting circle usually meant most or all of the spell hit them.

There's always the possibility to fit more creative aoe mechanics for the spec too without making it complicated but we'll never see that without a new expansion. You could have an ice bolt that doesn't chill and hits all targets near the primary target with ice shards for some splash damage. Or something.
92 Tauren Druid
7710
Even if Fire sims higher you still have to consider that it's still an RNG fest.

Until the boss mechanics start proving to be against Frost heavily (as far as I know there are no Patchwerk-style fights that would give the sims an overwhelming merit) I'm still going to run Frost in the next tier.
85 Troll Mage
9365
Even if Fire sims higher you still have to consider that it's still an RNG fest.

Until the boss mechanics start proving to be against Frost heavily (as far as I know there are no Patchwerk-style fights that would give the sims an overwhelming merit) I'm still going to run Frost in the next tier.


Looking at the simcraft for 4.3, Fire has an 11k difference between its highest and lowest iteration. Most specs are somewhere between 6k-7k. I forsee people looking at the top end parses from WoL and basing that off why fire is the #1 mage spec in 4.3 Just like 4.1.

And yeah, I'll definitely stick to Frost. I'm not much of a fan of Fire, but at least I like it more than Arcane.
85 Blood Elf Mage
8405
Well I'm not going to completely jump ship. I doubt there will still be a huge difference between Arcane and Frost, right? From what I've heard, some of the fights are more attuned to AoE, which would make Fire the better choice, and some fights are more attuned to single target, which would make Arcane and Frost the better choice.

So I'll stick with my frost/fire spec. Besides, Fire and Frost are closer with stat priorities than Arcane.
100 Draenei Mage
8755
Even if Fire sims higher you still have to consider that it's still an RNG fest.

Until the boss mechanics start proving to be against Frost heavily (as far as I know there are no Patchwerk-style fights that would give the sims an overwhelming merit) I'm still going to run Frost in the next tier.


Looking at the simcraft for 4.3, Fire has an 11k difference between its highest and lowest iteration. Most specs are somewhere between 6k-7k. I forsee people looking at the top end parses from WoL and basing that off why fire is the #1 mage spec in 4.3 Just like 4.1.

And yeah, I'll definitely stick to Frost. I'm not much of a fan of Fire, but at least I like it more than Arcane.


Revert the 20% deep freeze nerf and give blizzard a 40% buff and i won't look twice at fire. But since my group is currently lacking a warlock, frost doesn't look appealing without the 5%.

NOTE:

Has anyone noticed that due to the lack of the current talent system in MoP, frost will lose the ability to obtain Ignite? Pretty big nerf for frost already.
Edited by Switch on 10/31/2011 3:55 PM PDT
85 Human Priest
10900



Looking at the simcraft for 4.3, Fire has an 11k difference between its highest and lowest iteration. Most specs are somewhere between 6k-7k. I forsee people looking at the top end parses from WoL and basing that off why fire is the #1 mage spec in 4.3 Just like 4.1.

And yeah, I'll definitely stick to Frost. I'm not much of a fan of Fire, but at least I like it more than Arcane.


Revert the 20% deep freeze nerf and give blizzard a 40% buff and i won't look twice at fire. But since my group is currently lacking a warlock, frost doesn't look appealing without the 5%.

NOTE:

Has anyone noticed that due to the lack of the current talent system in MoP, frost will lose the ability to obtain Ignite? Pretty big nerf for frost already.


Losing Ignite shouldn't be problematic. If 3.0 and 4.0 (The few months before their respective expansions were launched) showed us anything it's that everyone does so much damage and healing and the content has been nerfed so much that you can play literally any spec and breeze through what would be a horribly trivialized version of Dragon Soul.

Also, numbers at level 90 will be changed so frequently throughout the beta that the gap between frost and other specs will either be smaller or about the same. Testing mechanics, rotations and other stuff came first, and once they were done ripping the guts out of talent trees and adding in new things, they retuned numbers and percentages. Although the possibility is there I don't see frost becoming worse. Over the years it has slowly gotten better.
Edited by Nysem on 10/31/2011 5:06 PM PDT
85 Dwarf Mage
4270
@Switch! What does your PTR spec look like?
85 Troll Mage
9885
How are you guys handling Rhyo?

I feel like an absolute handicap to my raid on that fight, and have been accused of such. I've tried a fire OS, but I'm still lacking on meters and despite shooting into #6 on Shannox with the 4pc, we've spent half the night on Rhyo (which we've downed before, with me there as Frost) so I'm pretty much getting judged post 4-pc by how bad Blizzard is. I strongly suspect that it's not my fault we're wiping tonight, but because of the bad night all of the ranged are under close scrutiny.

I really don't want to go back to the bench after I've finally caught up in gear to the raid. >.>
Edited by Eyezap on 11/1/2011 5:54 PM PDT
92 Tauren Druid
7710
11/01/2011 05:51 PMPosted by Eyezap
How are you guys handling Rhyo?


My assignment on (Heroic) Rhyolith is as follows:

1. kill Spark
2. kill Fragments
3. hit Feet

Granted this varies from raid to raid, but I almost never get to #3 until it's last call for Superheated. Since you're not doing Heroic the numbers will be more lax, but the tactics remain the same.

As Frost, your single-target DPS is what you live and die by. The Spark is the best place to put that to use. Now, granted, that depends entirely on who is actually assigned to the Fragments (Warlocks, Moonkin, and Shadow Priests are the best at this), and Blizzard still sucks, but Blizzard is merely supplementary damage to what the dedicated AOE'ers should be doing.

Fire is horrible for Rhyolith since the Fragments won't live long enough for the DoTs to kill them.

Arcane, similarly to Frost, should be on Spark duty. Their AOE isn't that great, either (no, don't argue with this-- the only time Arcane Explosion will make a difference is if you have Arcane Blast stacks, otherwise it doesn't really cut it).

Your raid needs to put the right people on the right duties.
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