[PvE] Frost Mage Guide - 4.1

(Locked)

1 Dwarf Paladin
0
Nice guide, should help mages become more into frost to get it better scores so we can actually use raidbots as a somewhat accurate reference. Stickied
100 Draenei Mage
9970
05/16/2011 03:42 PMPosted by Garlandpa
Nice guide, should help mages become more into frost to get it better scores so we can actually use raidbots as a somewhat accurate reference. Stickied



Yeah i'm hoping that's the case. From the beginning of cataclysm we haven't been able to accurately judge how we are doing because of the player's making up the spec.
100 Draenei Mage
9970
Piercing chill is great for heroics. You don't too much use out of in raids, but there are still situations where it's utilized...BoT especially has a number of trash packs where the amount CC'd makes blizzard a weak choice, but you still get a cleave on 1-2 targets. It's not a great option, but really there aren't any "great" options with those two points. Ice Shards, Reactive Barrier, Piercing Chill, 3/3 EW....they're all pretty weak/situational.


Exactly.
85 Undead Mage
10030
I guess I don't understand something about Piercing Chill. I read it as putting the chill effect on nearby adds. They people talk about getting all of these procs.

Does the FFB proc solely because the Chill effect is applied, even though the frost bolt does no damage to the other targets?
Edited by Lucrea on 5/17/2011 11:37 AM PDT
You'll want to start off the fight with this (This "first strike" rotation is unique to boss encounters only):

(Any trinkets/Volcanic potion) - Frostfire Orb - Icy Veins - PF - Deep Freeze - Cold Snap - Deep Freeze - Frostfire Orb - (begin "refrain" rotation, but important to note that you will rarely have to cast Frostbolt while the two Frostfire Orb's are out) - Icy Veins (once the first's duration is over)


With 2 FFOs out, whats the point of double Icy Veins which will be largely wasted (especially since two Frostbolts will benefit from the talented reduced cast time)?
After the first Icy Veins, you use 4 GCDs for the other spells and by that time you will have more FoF/BF charges from the first FFO to use and after that, you will be spammed with FoF/BF procs from the 2 FFOs.
It would be much better to save the Icy Veins for after the second FFO (or a couple of FoF/BF procs after that) to fully benefit from it. Granted, it is reset with Cold Snap but using a GCD for something that won't benefit you in those first few seconds seems largely wasteful.

05/17/2011 11:37 AMPosted by Lucrea
I guess I don't understand something about Piercing Chill. I read it as putting the chill effect on nearby adds. They people talk about getting all of these procs.

Fingers of Frost talent.
Edited by Gnorgnash on 5/17/2011 11:42 AM PDT
90 Human Mage
10015
I guess I don't understand something about Piercing Chill. I read it as putting the chill effect on nearby adds. They people talk about getting all of these procs.

Does the FFB proc solely because the Chill effect is applied, even though the frost bolt does no damage to the other targets?


Not Brain Freeze (it's checked on cast, not on hit), but FOF can indeed proc off the extra chill applications.
Edited by Lhivera on 5/17/2011 11:43 AM PDT
85 Undead Mage
10030
I guess I don't understand something about Piercing Chill. I read it as putting the chill effect on nearby adds. They people talk about getting all of these procs.

Does the FFB proc solely because the Chill effect is applied, even though the frost bolt does no damage to the other targets?


Not Brain Freeze (it's checked on cast, not on hit), but FOF can indeed proc off the extra chill applications.


Got it. I can see that being more useful now.
100 Draenei Mage
9970
With 2 FFOs out, whats the point of double Icy Veins which will be largely wasted (especially since two Frostbolts will benefit from the talented reduced cast time)?
After the first Icy Veins, you use 4 GCDs for the other spells and by that time you will have more FoF/BF charges from the first FFO to use and after that, you will be spammed with FoF/BF procs from the 2 FFOs.
It would be much better to save the Icy Veins for after the second FFO (or a couple of FoF/BF procs after that) to fully benefit from it. Granted, it is reset with Cold Snap but using a GCD for something that won't benefit you in those first few seconds seems largely wasteful.


If you're going to Cold Snap, you will want to use icy veins before hand. And actually, the second icy veins will be cast when no FFO's are up. Since the whole beginning part up to the second FFO happens in less than 3 seconds, the second icy veins will be up when no FFO's are up. And if you saw, i mentioned that you should wait a little on the second FFO, don't cast it immediately after CS.

Are the individual values of FFO and Icy veins diminished in this phase? For sure, but overall it's a dps increase, because due to CS, you aren't having the abilities on cooldown more than they would be without the CS, so you might as well cast them.

Edit: Please +1 and sticky!
Edited by Switch on 5/17/2011 11:49 AM PDT
85 Undead Mage
10030
05/17/2011 01:22 PMPosted by Trevihn
Where does Ignite fit into a Frost Mage's rotation?


Frostfire bolt
100 Draenei Mage
9970
Nice guide and all, but call me when frost becomes relevant in PVE EVER.


http://stateofdps.com/ As the last spec of any class or any possible spec. You do frost PVE. Tell me how that goes for ya.


A better reference would be raidbots.com since stateofdps is still 4.0.6.....

But seriously, it is good in PvE, it's just that the player base for frost is mainly casuals while the player base for fire/arcane has more real raiders in it.

Think about it like this. Take 2 similar but different cars and completely disassemble them separately. Now have a company who builds cars reassemble one of them (fire). Take the other and have teenagers reassemble it with a manual (frost). Which will look better? Fire, but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with the parts....

just the people working on it.
Edited by Switch on 5/17/2011 1:58 PM PDT
1 Dwarf Rogue
0
nice guide! stickied/bumped, +1
100 Draenei Mage
9970
Agreed to some extent, even the site you posted shows frost at the bottom of the list. And using your analogy I dont want kids with a manual putting together my mazerati. The guide is nice, no argument there sir. Lot of time you put into it. But seems a bit wasted since Frost still doesnt appear to top fire or arc.

Never said our parts are wrong, just said frost still after 4.1 does not really compete close enough to not choose fire or arc over it. I enjoy frost as a side spec and pvp etc. But when pushing math and numbers I need more then a well thought guide saying so. I need math numbers and log parses to prove frost has taken over the top or silver medal spots.

I'm not hating on your post, just cant see frost raid reliable until those teenagers get a better manual. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F1d3QWsyk0&feature=related


Trust me i agree that frost isn't where it should be (but it would help if the high-end raiders experimented with the other parts, which are nearly as good), same with mages in general. But when frost does become pretty good (hopefully 4.1 wasn't the peak of it), i want the mage community to be able to go into the spec easily (since it's very different from fire/arcane). This guide is here to support that, please sticky and +1!!
100 Tauren Druid
8540
You'll want to start off the fight with this (This "first strike" rotation is unique to boss encounters only):

(Any trinkets/Volcanic potion) - Frostfire Orb - Icy Veins - PF - Deep Freeze - Cold Snap - Deep Freeze - Frostfire Orb - (begin "refrain" rotation, but important to note that you will rarely have to cast Frostbolt while the two Frostfire Orb's are out) - Icy Veins (once the first's duration is over)


In practice you want, at the very least, to open your salvo with Mirror Image because two Deep Freezes back-to-back will rip agro off the tank no matter how good they are (one Deep Freeze doesn't do it).

Yes, the value of back-to-back Deep Freezes is undeniable, and it's more difficult to line that and Frostfire Orb up immediately after cooldown later in the fight (they will inevitably fall out of sync), but perhaps you should also weigh that back-to-back Icy Veins during Bloodlust/Time Warp may more than make up for the opening. Frostbolt makes up about 50% of your overall damage and running them with a 1.0 second cast is nothing to sneeze at.

It may be, though, that fight length will play a huge factor over which is better. Fights that go over 10 minutes will favor using Cold Snap early, but I haven't done a fight as Frost that lasted that long (as I don't run Frost on H Maloriak).

Reactive Barrier - Although having only 1/2 into this talent means that there's a 50% chance it will do nothing, once you get past 50% the chance dramatically rises to points where it's almost 100%. Strongly Suggested


I actually run without this Talent. In general I cast my own Frost Barrier as part of a movement action (in lieu of an Ice Lance, for instance) and as such the spell is likely on cooldown whenever the Talent procs. It's possibly a really bad old habit to have, but personal shields was one of those things I prefer to take by my own hands.


05/15/2011 11:19 AMPosted by Switch
It's also important to put it in the context of the fight. For instance, of course on fights like Chim arcane will win. That's what it's designed for.


Not necessarily true. Last night's H Chimaeron I've essentially matched the Arcane's damage output. The week prior I exceeded it due to having more internal defenses up (shields) on a botched transition (and therefore I lived a whole lot longer).


05/15/2011 12:19 AMPosted by Catperson
And, your first sample talent tree is way off. You should never, ever take points in Piercing Chill for single target dps. there aren't going to be 2 other people there to recieve the charges.


This is silly; of COURSE it's worthless for single target. This talent is when you're dealing with up to 3 guys in proximity to each other when Blizzard is inappropriate (some H Magmaw strategies place the constructs right next to Magmaw, for instance).
85 Orc Mage
8125
to be honest, blizzard isn't realy worth it, it hits for way too low, you are prob better off single targeting stuffs.

also, i thought the soft crit cap will be 33.34%
Edited by Hobolin on 5/19/2011 4:14 AM PDT
to be honest, blizzard isn't realy worth it, it hits for way too low, you are prob better off single targeting stuffs.

also, i thought the soft crit cap will be 33.34%


I believe you get 10% from raid buffs/debuffs. So if you can regularly get the classes that provide them, you only need to gear for ~23%.
90 Human Mage
13720
i tried to go through every post to see if this was mentioned but is there a particular reason your base frost spec bothers to take 2/2 frostfire orb when 1/2 will suffice to convert it to ffo from fo? for a raiding situation i don't see the extra slow being that reliable due to ffo only hitting one target at a time and our responsibility for kiting being primarily multiple-add oriented. 1/2 is enough to gain fof charges.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]