[PvE] Frost Mage Guide - 4.1

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2 Human Mage
0
i tried to go through every post to see if this was mentioned but is there a particular reason your base frost spec bothers to take 2/2 frostfire orb when 1/2 will suffice to convert it to ffo from fo? for a raiding situation i don't see the extra slow being that reliable due to ffo only hitting one target at a time and our responsibility for kiting being primarily multiple-add oriented. 1/2 is enough to gain fof charges.


Actually 1/2 will never give you FoF charges because it doesn't chill the targets it hits. 1/2 only makes it so Flame Orb benefits from Frost specialization 25% bonus, mechanically speaking. The 2nd point is what gives it the ability to snare and therefore proc FoF and Brain Freeze.

This is the type of thing that people easily miss when they first go Frost (as well as BFFFB benefitting from FoF and Ignite), and why they may think Frost is so far behind Arcane and Fire and disregard the spec.
Edited by Incéndiary on 5/19/2011 8:35 AM PDT
90 Human Mage
13720
05/19/2011 08:33 AMPosted by Incéndiary
Actually 1/2 will never give you FoF charges because it doesn't chill the targets it hits. 1/2 only makes it so Flame Orb benefits from Frost specialization 25% bonus, mechanically speaking. The 2nd point is what gives it the ability to snare and therefore proc FoF and Brain Freeze.


sonofa...

you can tell i only use the spec for nef x_x though i would like to play with it some before i go back to my priest in 4.2... thanks for pointing out my error!
90 Undead Mage
8125
And, there is no real reason for a point in Reactive Barrier either. The only real purpose of that talent is in PvP, where you can't waste a GCD to cast it.


They supposedly fixed it so it casts regardless of the gcd. Which means you don't need to spend said gcd to get a barrier, increasing dps in high raid damage situations.

Good guide. It looks fine to me, so I guess all the formatting criticism was either unfounded or taken into account. Note that spellthreads come from tailors, not enchanters.
100 Tauren Druid
8710
05/19/2011 03:25 AMPosted by Hobolin
to be honest, blizzard isn't realy worth it, it hits for way too low, you are prob better off single targeting stuffs.


While I agree that it hits too low, Blizzard is far more worth casting when you are dealing with more than 3 targets. On individual targets yes the damage does suck (even when it crits), but when you consider it's doing the same to up to 12 guys it doesn't look as bad. Blizzard is actually my #2 damage source on Cho'gall Normal because it usually hits around 8-10 mobs (slimes or tentacles) on average.

All things considered, though, in this tier of content that's the only fight I use Blizzard on.
100 Draenei Mage
10005
While I agree that it hits too low, Blizzard is far more worth casting when you are dealing with more than 3 targets. On individual targets yes the damage does suck (even when it crits), but when you consider it's doing the same to up to 12 guys it doesn't look as bad. Blizzard is actually my #2 damage source on Cho'gall Normal because it usually hits around 8-10 mobs (slimes or tentacles) on average.

All things considered, though, in this tier of content that's the only fight I use Blizzard on.



I would say more like 5-6 targets is when AoE > Single Target for frost, especially if you can freeze them (piercing chill, ultra procs).

I think it does need a little bit more. Take a look at mind sear for example. Not only does it follow the target, it deals a lot more AoE damage. I wouldn't say that it's ability to slow (requires talent) and its ability to proc (again requires talent..) nearly makes up for the lack of damage and being stationary.

But one awesome benefit you get from blizzard is that it makes for an incredibly easy transition from AoE to single target, especially since if casted on a lot of targets you are guaranteed max procs plus nearly all trinkets that aren't on ICD. This allows you to go into the single target rotation swiftly, but again that requires the talent.

Yes, the value of back-to-back Deep Freezes is undeniable, and it's more difficult to line that and Frostfire Orb up immediately after cooldown later in the fight (they will inevitably fall out of sync), but perhaps you should also weigh that back-to-back Icy Veins during Bloodlust/Time Warp may more than make up for the opening. Frostbolt makes up about 50% of your overall damage and running them with a 1.0 second cast is nothing to sneeze at.

It may be, though, that fight length will play a huge factor over which is better. Fights that go over 10 minutes will favor using Cold Snap early, but I haven't done a fight as Frost that lasted that long (as I don't run Frost on H Maloriak).


Yes you would think that having CS in Heroism/Time Warp phases would be awesome, but i've noticed usually that the amount of control you have during that 50% casting increase is usually diminished, which usually results in a loss of dps. Plus, this guide is more geared towards beginning players (since most of them are). There are a few elitist frost players like myself whom may be able to control it during those phases, but overall i'd suggest the early CS.
Edited by Switch on 5/19/2011 1:34 PM PDT
90 Gnome Mage
12905
Why isn't this stickied yet?
85 Gnome Mage
7110
Everyone request this as a sticky :D
85 Troll Mage
8775
Is 2% haste better than 2% increased fire damage and a 66% chance for FFO to explode?

That would be taking two points out of Netherwind Presence and putting them into Fire Power.

Also, a fun macro that I didn't see listed:

#showtooltip Summon Water Elemental
/cast [pet]Freeze;Summon Water Elemental

If your pet isn't out, it will be summoned. If it is out, it will bring up the cast circle for pet freeze.
Edited by Zazi on 5/20/2011 3:38 PM PDT
100 Draenei Mage
10005
Is 2% haste better than 2% increased fire damage and a 66% chance for FFO to explode?

That would be taking two points out of Netherwind Presence and putting them into Fire Power.

Also, a fun macro that I didn't see listed:

#showtooltip Summon Water Elemental
/cast [pet]Freeze;Summon Water Elemental

If your pet isn't out, it will be summoned. If it is out, it will bring up the cast circle for pet freeze.


Interesting you say that actually. Frostfire Bolt on a good day is about 17% of your total damage, with ignite being 5%. Some theorycrafting would have to be done to see the dps increase from the 2% compared to the increased damage on FFB.

With this in mind, you might be right once you get the t12 4 piece, because then we will be proccing BF more than FoF, and our % damage from FFB will dramatically increase.

For now, the 2% haste is most likely still better.

PS: I don't think the explosion would apply to FFO because it isn't Flame Orb anymore, but i don't know for sure. Thanks for the macro, ill be making a section of macros for that.
Edited by Switch on 6/12/2011 9:45 AM PDT
1 Dwarf Rogue
0
thanks for the macro zazi, and good guide switch. sticky!
85 Gnome Mage
7110
Switch, you should include a section for addons and more specifically, powerauras.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/wowscrnshot052111184416.jpg/

Lets you see FoF procs, brain freeze procs, deep freeze CD etc. Its also customizable unlike the default blizzard ui.
85 Troll Mage
5090
Switch, you should include a section for addons and more specifically, powerauras.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/wowscrnshot052111184416.jpg/

Lets you see FoF procs, brain freeze procs, deep freeze CD etc. Its also customizable unlike the default blizzard ui.


I'd argue that while that might be good for a general mage guide, if you want to keep this Frost PvE specific an addons section would only unnecessarily inflate it. But, I could see the argument either way I suppose. I use mage nuggets myself, not powerauras, and it tracks all of those things you mentioned. But, I use it regardless of the spec I'm playing, because it also tracks Living Bomb, hot streak, arcane missiles, etc. So while I think it's good for a mage to have some addon of their choice to track procs/cooldowns, I don't see it as being Frost specific
Edited by Ellyngton on 5/21/2011 7:44 PM PDT
85 Gnome Mage
7110
Switch, you should include a section for addons and more specifically, powerauras.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/wowscrnshot052111184416.jpg/

Lets you see FoF procs, brain freeze procs, deep freeze CD etc. Its also customizable unlike the default blizzard ui.


I'd argue that while that might be good for a general mage guide, if you want to keep this Frost PvE specific an addons section would only unnecessarily inflate it. But, I could see the argument either way I suppose. I use mage nuggets myself, not powerauras, and it tracks all of those things you mentioned. But, I use it regardless of the spec I'm playing, because it also tracks Living Bomb, hot streak, arcane missiles, etc. So while I think it's good for a mage to have some addon of their choice to track procs/cooldowns, I don't see it as being Frost specific


I see your point but if anything include a brief footer about how important these addons are to the frost spec and a few addons that work well, like you mentioned considering the several procs we have to be aware of.
85 Troll Mage
5090
Help a newb mage out plz, im trying to gear for 2v2 pvp, by going full pve gear. Im currently trying to stack up on crit/mastery gear, and im gemming for crit rating. According to the guide i should regem int. However for a frost mage where 75% of my damage is done during a root/deep freeze should i continue stacking crit?

Also, iv always been melee in pve, so iv always understood the concept of 5% hit for pvp, and 7% for heroics 8% for raids. However, with 6.2% hit in heroics, i never ever ever see a miss. Exactly what am i missing out on here with the hit i dont have? Im not missing, why do i need more?


^^never been a caster b4, plz halp.

Edit: to the flamers who will hate on pve gear in pvp, if uv ever been a frost mage in 2s, you know that you never ever get focused first.


This is a PvE thread, so the stat weights and gear choices aren't going to be the same as what you'll want for PvP. The hit cap for heroics is much less than raids. Raid bosses are 17%. I haven't had to remember this stat in a while, but I think heroic bosses are only 6%. It's because they're level 82 instead of 83.
90 Tauren Druid
7040
Great guide - thank you for your effort.

My mage is 84 and pulling 12k DPS as frost in dungeons. I'm not a hardcore raider anymore and always like to try and use the same spec for PVP as I use for PVE (obviously with some minor talent differences) so I'm glad frost is viable.

One thing I wanted to make sure on was Brain Freeze procs without FoF. Should I be saving these as long as I can to try and pair them up with FoF? The tricky part there seems to be that it could be wasted...another BF could proc before I use the first one. My strategy thus far has been to use BF without FoF only if it means casting a frostbolt instead.
90 Human Mage
10015
As long as you're banking an FOF charge, you should almost never be in the position to have to make that decision; simulation shows that the difference in DPS between holding the BF for an FOF proc and using it immediately is within the margin of error, so I generally recommend just using them immediately; it's simpler, and simpler means you can focus more on the encounter.
100 Draenei Mage
10005
Great guide - thank you for your effort.

My mage is 84 and pulling 12k DPS as frost in dungeons. I'm not a hardcore raider anymore and always like to try and use the same spec for PVP as I use for PVE (obviously with some minor talent differences) so I'm glad frost is viable.

One thing I wanted to make sure on was Brain Freeze procs without FoF. Should I be saving these as long as I can to try and pair them up with FoF? The tricky part there seems to be that it could be wasted...another BF could proc before I use the first one. My strategy thus far has been to use BF without FoF only if it means casting a frostbolt instead.


Yeah, unless that BF charge is literally just about to run out, you'll want to save if for an FoF charge always. As Lhiv said, it's simpler which helps you focus on the fight and the rest of your rotation.
100 Draenei Mage
10005
And Jehftree, i'd like to add that i rarely run into the scenario where i run out of my BF charge, so it's not something you should be concerned about.
85 Blood Elf Mage
4470
Great guide thank you!

I'm just wondering two things:

Is permachill worth it? Am I better off investing those points in Enduring Winter instead so my spells cost less and I can keep molten armour up longer? MA helps me get at 23% crit and 33% in raids (shattercap).

And; I'm not understanding the arguments against Ice Shards?? To me the ice lance range buff more than anything seems a necessity and the slow on blizzard is a bonus.

Additionally, what is the argument for 2 points in netherwind presence versus firepower?
Edited by Vishstrider on 5/24/2011 1:22 PM PDT
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