[PvE] Frost Mage Guide - 4.1

(Locked)

85 Worgen Mage
3815
My question is from you guys; Using BF with FoF has me under the impression that it's actually a DPS loss, just from a few tests on my last Chimaeron.

What do you guys think?
100 Draenei Mage
10065
My question is from you guys; Using BF with FoF has me under the impression that it's actually a DPS loss, just from a few tests on my last Chimaeron.

What do you guys think?



Your tests might have simply been dramatically skewed due to the "miss" mechanic of chimaeron or simple bad RNG.

With the exception of DF, FoF BF is your biggest nuke. The main and really only difference between BF and FoF BF is that it's nearly a guaranteed crit (or simply guaranteed) with FoF. It is always a dps increase, with the exception of the one time it may happen where you are about to run out of item based procs in which case Ice Lance would be better to use instead of waiting for a BF charge.
Edited by Switch on 6/4/2011 8:58 PM PDT
100 Draenei Shaman
11115
06/04/2011 08:41 PMPosted by Nomethegnome
Why is this not stickied?

Because people aren't spamming "Request Sticky" enough.

Frost love!
With the exception of DF, FoF BF is your biggest nuke. The main and really only difference between BF and FoF BF is that it's nearly a guaranteed crit (or simply guaranteed) with FoF. It is always a dps increase, with the exception of the one time it may happen where you are about to run out of item based procs in which case Ice Lance would be better to use instead of waiting for a BF charge.


That is correct. You also have to take into account that Ignite makes a crit BFFFB hit really, but really hard, almost as much as DF.
100 Draenei Mage
10065
Original poster's guild WoL: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/139639/
Only doing regular modes and isn't pumping out at least 17k on most fights. I'd say the spec setup isn't working at all.


I just started putting up WoL parses on that site, and i'm not sure what you're referring to because my overall damage for both of the main parses was 20.5k, also remember that i do not yet have my 4 piece, which benefits mages more than anyone else (in terms of dps). It also isn't my fault that my guild has not achieved heroics yet, we recently went through a lot of our team quitting.

Also take into account that on Al'akir, i was on the adds which is a 24/7 job and will result in a dps loss compared to others who are attacking the boss when he has 50% or more increased damage taken.

Frost is still very behind the top classes, so no matter how well i perform i will still be below the top parses on raidbots.

I would say the spec setup is working very well. I am pumping out 6-7k more dps than the average frost mage dps according to raidbots for 10man.
Edited by Switch on 6/5/2011 8:16 AM PDT
90 Tauren Druid
7040
05/14/2011 05:18 PMPosted by Switch
Important to note that the Prime glyphs change depending on your crit chance. If you have a 33% buffed crit chance without the extra 2% from molten armor, change Glyph of Molten Armor to Glyph of Frostbolt. Remember the best Prime setup is DF/FB/FFB, but only after you are crit capped from the original 3% MA


Quick question - do you ignore the 5% crit increase to ice lance from the T11 2 piece bonus when deciding between molten armor and frostbolt glyphs? I assume assuring deep freeze/ffb crits > going over the cap for ice lance crits.

Also to update I pulled 19k dps on BH this week in 355 ilvl gear...and I think I can do a better job as I continue to learn the intricacies of the rotation.

Thanks again for the great guide! Sticky please.
2 Human Mage
0
I think by most accounts Frostbolt is the better glyph no matter what your crit looks like. Molten Armor simply has too low an uptime for long boss fights vs Mage Armor, while Frostbolt's glyph is always on, so to speak.

It's personal preference really whether you want to cap DF/FFB when you have 2pc. Sims only cap Ice Lance I believe. I think if your gear is more mastery weighted, you'll want to cap DF and FFB. If you focus more on haste, its less important to cap them.
100 Draenei Mage
10065
Quick question - do you ignore the 5% crit increase to ice lance from the T11 2 piece bonus when deciding between molten armor and frostbolt glyphs? I assume assuring deep freeze/ffb crits > going over the cap for ice lance crits.

Also to update I pulled 19k dps on BH this week in 355 ilvl gear...and I think I can do a better job as I continue to learn the intricacies of the rotation.

Thanks again for the great guide! Sticky please.


Because the current tier is mainly beneficial to fire, the 2 piece does virtually nothing for us. Ice lance is too little of our overall damage to reforge/itemize/glyph for less crit. It has no barring on anything. So, you should still be gearing for crit cap in raid. Unless you are just coming into raiding, you should have frostbolt over molten armor.
85 Worgen Mage
4490
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/yj54fuozdc2xa1b3/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9rjm77y94nb0qy9m/

God I love this spec, it is so underrated. I'm gonna chill Ragnaros out.

Yes now I'm getting to the point where I'm contemplating whether to do Moten Armour or Mage Armour, the uptime ISN'T THAT bad if you have MoE and Enduring Winter (and perhaps if you get arcane concentration) but you will definitely need to evocate or switch armours during the longer HM fights. Normal fights are a faceroll (for most geared guilds).

What do you reckon switch? And if I do go back to mage armour, should I glyph that or opt for 5% icelance damage??
Edited by Vishwanath on 6/6/2011 1:51 PM PDT
100 Draenei Mage
10065
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/yj54fuozdc2xa1b3/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9rjm77y94nb0qy9m/

God I love this spec, it is so underrated. I'm gonna chill Ragnaros out.

Yes now I'm getting to the point where I'm contemplating whether to do Moten Armour or Mage Armour, the uptime ISN'T THAT bad if you have MoE and Enduring Winter (and perhaps if you get arcane concentration) but you will definitely need to evocate or switch armours during the longer HM fights. Normal fights are a faceroll (for most geared guilds).

What do you reckon switch? And if I do go back to mage armour, should I glyph that or opt for 5% icelance damage??


Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but you shouldn't glyph mage armor or ice lance in the current situation.

Because crit values will increase faster than bosses will decrease crit, you will eventually be using only mage armour simply because you will be crit capped. Until that point, your glyphs should still be DF, FFB, and FB (MA if you are really lacking crit). Once again, until you can just use mage armour, you still want to use Molten Armor until about 30% mana (with evocation/gem using) and then switch to mage armour

You could argue that even at 33.34% crit, it's still better dps to have molten armor for frostbolt. But, as you know, you are constantly watching your mana with MA (therefore losing focus on the fight/rotation/opporunities). It will increase your dps to have mage armor up the entire time because you don't have to worry about mana at all, but only once you are crit capped (with raid buffs of course)
Edited by Switch on 6/6/2011 2:15 PM PDT
85 Worgen Mage
4490
[quote]http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/yj54fuozdc2xa1b3/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9rjm77y94nb0qy9m/
It will increase your dps to have mage armor up the entire time because you don't have to worry about mana at all, but only once you are crit capped (with raid buffs of course)


That's a great point, I've found being more conservative and careful leads to better DPS than just going ballistic and losing focus on what you're supposed to do. And yes its a hard lesson!
85 Undead Mage
11405
Bump. Would love to see this thread get more stickies.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14425
Does anyone know about problems with Simcraft's frost math? I keep plotting my dps per stat, and hit, which my mage has at 17.02%, is still rated as higher than crit or haste. What's the deal?

And what's this I hear about crit suppression on bosses in future tiers? I know they were talking about such a thing but I don't remember hearing anything one way or another. Do we have math about it? Will our crit be suppressed by a certain % in T12 content?
100 Draenei Mage
10065
Does anyone know about problems with Simcraft's frost math? I keep plotting my dps per stat, and hit, which my mage has at 17.02%, is still rated as higher than crit or haste. What's the deal?

And what's this I hear about crit suppression on bosses in future tiers? I know they were talking about such a thing but I don't remember hearing anything one way or another. Do we have math about it? Will our crit be suppressed by a certain % in T12 content?


Although you'd have the consult Lhivera about this to clarify, i'm fairly certain that SimC only accounts for hits value pre hit cap. Just know that it will always be your last stat once you get capped.

Yes, bosses will have increased crit suppression per tier. I'd have to look into it further, but i'm fairly certain it's a 1% increase per tier (or around that). For instance, you'd need 33.34% crit for this tier, but next tier bosses you would need 34.34%, and so on till deathwing.
85 Blood Elf Mage
12775
Although you'd have the consult Lhivera about this to clarify, i'm fairly certain that SimC only accounts for hits value pre hit cap. Just know that it will always be your last stat once you get capped.

Yes, bosses will have increased crit suppression per tier. I'd have to look into it further, but i'm fairly certain it's a 1% increase per tier (or around that). For instance, you'd need 33.34% crit for this tier, but next tier bosses you would need 34.34%, and so on till deathwing.


Huh, I had heard about the suppression but thought they'd scrapped it since we haven't heard anything definitive (read: blue) in a long time. I don't really like it, because it's artificially deflating the stats on our gear. I just figured they were going to start out with low crit (as they did) and then push more slowly upward. The whole crit suppression thing is REALLY counterintuitive to new players, too. I've been playing since BC and this is also the first I've ever heard of it.

And yeah, Simcraft is acting funny about my hit rating but everything else seems to be in order. Figured I'd post on the correct toon this time around.
77 Night Elf Mage
1070
This makes me happy! I am leveling this mage as frost but keep thinking to myself that sooner or later I will need to change specs if I am "serious" about being a good dps. Now I think I will stick with frost. Thanks so much for the guide!
100 Draenei Mage
10065
Huh, I had heard about the suppression but thought they'd scrapped it since we haven't heard anything definitive (read: blue) in a long time. I don't really like it, because it's artificially deflating the stats on our gear. I just figured they were going to start out with low crit (as they did) and then push more slowly upward. The whole crit suppression thing is REALLY counterintuitive to new players, too. I've been playing since BC and this is also the first I've ever heard of it.

And yeah, Simcraft is acting funny about my hit rating but everything else seems to be in order. Figured I'd post on the correct toon this time around.


You're right when you say i haven't really heard much lately regarding that. I'll make a post in general.

This makes me happy! I am leveling this mage as frost but keep thinking to myself that sooner or later I will need to change specs if I am "serious" about being a good dps. Now I think I will stick with frost. Thanks so much for the guide!


Yes frost for life!! and your welcome
100 Draenei Mage
10065
bump
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]