holy shield in 4.2, help me understand.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
2565
They said if it didn't work they'd fall back. No big then
37 Tauren Paladin
170
Well, at least you guys admit that there are several knobs that are in for some twisting and not just the paladin one.

Cuz as this stands, You'd either have to bump up a bit the base block value for paladins to make up for it or knock down Warrior's crit block to have a semblance of similar mitigation between both shield tanks after changing how Holy Shield works.
85 Night Elf Druid
8135
05/16/2011 03:31 PMPosted by Ðemolition
But if hes referring to changes we have yet to see, it still seems like effort being wasted fixing something that isn't broke, when they could be spending time fixing something that is.


Blockcapping is potentially broken IMO. Crushing blows cause balance issues.

It wouldn't surprise me if in the next PTR push Paladin mastery increases block chance by a much smaller amount but also increases amount blocked.
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
10020
I feel the need to echo Demo too. You made it even easier for them to cap while dropping the value of mastery. So, while you didn't make mastery worthless; you did make it worth less. You didn't make it harder to cap, you made it easier. Doesn't compute.

It wouldn't surprise me if in the next PTR push Paladin mastery increases block chance by a much smaller amount but also increases amount blocked.

That I would have understood. If they block 45 to 50% and the block chance dropped, it makes perfect sense. The current change is all backwards.
Edited by Dosvidaniya on 5/16/2011 3:39 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Druid
8135
05/16/2011 03:38 PMPosted by Dosvidaniya
That I would have understood. If they block 45 to 50% and the block chance dropped, it makes perfect sense. The current change is all backwards.


It's not backwards, it's just incomplete. The mastery change just didn't get checked in in time for the current PTR build.
90 Human Death Knight
10870
I'm sorry, I dont want to just echo what other people have said, but the change to holy shield flies directly against what was said here about the intent to test changes that preserve the value of mastery. Protection paladin mastery is chance to block, altering holy shield to increase chance to block devalues mastery and makes it be worthless sooner.

Unless this is just part of a change that will simply see the return from mastery be chopped in half or something.
90 Night Elf Warrior
16175
This isn't the first time they've released a set of changes that only really make sense together in parts on a PTR.

Not sure exactly -why- they do this though, since, in this case, no useful feedback can be garnered from the holy shield nerf alone. The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to do a PTR push for other reasons and it just wasn't worth holding it up to get the other changes implemented first. I don't think they had the intent of releasing a build with only the holy shield change.
85 Worgen Warrior
2375
We are in the process of trying some different numbers for various talents and mechanics on the PTR,


Any word on different mechanics for applying diseases for Blood DKs? Because a PTR would be a good place to test those.
37 Tauren Paladin
170
I'm sorry, I dont want to just echo what other people have said, but the change to holy shield flies directly against what was said here about the intent to test changes that preserve the value of mastery. Protection paladin mastery is chance to block, altering holy shield to increase chance to block devalues mastery and makes it be worthless sooner.

Unless this is just part of a change that will simply see the return from mastery be chopped in half or something.


Not to mention Paladins would take more damage unless either the base block value for paladins is increased or crit block for warriors is devalued
90 Tauren Warrior
10125
I'm gonna go on a limb and say that Paladin mastery will probably be changed in the next ptr patch to give less "block rating" but more "block value" on a point for point basis.

So while mastery for warriors increases the chance of a crit block for 60%, a paladin stacking mastery will block for ~45% or such at normal gear levels, but neither can get block cap.
85 Human Warrior
11430
Now I'm genuinely curious to see how they nerf warrior/paladin masteries without simply making the shield classes worse than druids with their higher armor values and avoidance.

(In theory, I'd be worried about being worse than DKs, too...but the value of self-healing/Blood Shield doesn't seem to be panning out the way they expected, so I doubt there's any danger of that.)
Edited by Ahti on 5/16/2011 3:49 PM PDT
85 Worgen Warrior
2375


And if you Blizzard is completely overhauling Mastery after just 6 months, what does that say about their overall plan, their vision, and their goal-attaining capacity? We deserve better than Norma Jean development.


Perhaps you'd like to ask healers about their masteries.
90 Night Elf Warrior
16175
05/16/2011 03:47 PMPosted by Feanorion


It's not backwards, it's just incomplete. The mastery change just didn't get checked in in time for the current PTR build.


PTR stands for what?

Public TEST Realm.

If there is such a Mastery change in the works, releasing this Holy Shield change was completely pointless, meaningless, and wasteful without the corresponding Mastery change. What kind of data can be gleaned from the Holy Shield change in a vacuum? What useful comparative information can be taken from just a fraction of a change?

That is all assuming the Holy Shield change really is just part of a bigger plan, and not proof of an absence of any plan or vision whatsoever.

And if you Blizzard is completely overhauling Mastery after just 6 months, what does that say about their overall plan, their vision, and their goal-attaining capacity? We deserve better than Norma Jean development.


The most likely explanation is that the PTR doesn't revolve entirely around Prot Paladins, and they had other reasons they wanted to push a PTR build even if they hadn't implemented everything they wanted to for Prot paladins.

I'm also not sure I'd call the fairly likely change to +block chance + block value a complete overhaul on the mastery system.
48 Gnome Priest
360
We are in the process of trying some different numbers for various talents and mechanics on the PTR, with the goal of making it harder (or impossible) to cap mastery. What we want to avoid is making mastery worthless or causing other undesirable effects.


This change alone does the exact opposite though unless there is an unannounced change coming up with something like Sparkle Power. That's why it's so confusing to us.

05/16/2011 03:49 PMPosted by Communitas
Perhaps you'd like to ask healers about their masteries.


As a resto shaman I love my mastery. :)
Edited by Kahzregi on 5/16/2011 3:53 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Druid
8135
05/16/2011 03:44 PMPosted by Asthas
Not sure exactly -why- they do this though, since, in this case, no useful feedback can be garnered from the holy shield nerf alone. The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to do a PTR push for other reasons and it just wasn't worth holding it up to get the other changes implemented first. I don't think they had the intent of releasing a build with only the holy shield change.


This is how software development works.

There are many different things being worked on simultaneously. If they waited for each to be at a "good point" for testing, you'd never see a PTR build.

So instead they push out a build every few days. Some stuff is in a good state for testing; other stuff isn't. They get useful feedback on the some stuff and can ignore the feedback on the stuff which isn't in a useful state for testing.
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
Hush. They're too busy breaking tanks with working mechanics to be bothered with something as trivial and unimportant as fixing tanks with broken mechanics that work at cross-odds with that class' other mechanics.

Hi Frenzied Regen.
85 Worgen Warrior
2375


I've never healed, and I don't know or care about healer mechanics as long as I don't die. And since I am almost always the last to die (unless Magmaw breaks free of the one chain holding him and eats me), neither myself nor my healers are likely the culprits for our lack of content cleared.


My point was only that healers have collectively had about 3 or 4 mastery changes.
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