dungeon journal: down the spiral we go

80 Troll Warrior
2815
I'm surprised there haven't been any posts about this latest addition to the PTR.

The encounter journal is an amazingly thorough description of every normal and hard mode encounter, with lists of abilities and in many cases instructions on how to deal with them. It's fully functional on the PTR - which means that any top raiding guild has access to everything it needs to know to defeat Heroic Ragnaros, right now.

Some of the more melodramatic top 10 EU guilds have already expressed their opinion on this being the Cataclysmic End to Raiding in the World of Warcraft. Since it's too late to take this information back, Blizzard has made a very clear statement:
Discovery and inventiveness in raiding are bad, with perfect execution being all that matters.

As someone who's been raiding at a higher level than most of you can ever hope to achieve, I have to say that I'm a bit saddened (though not shocked) by this slide. The days of creativity are slowly drifting away, replaced by those that can field the most technically perfect raid and nothing else.

The world top guilds will remain world top guilds, but the progression race for this tier has been irrevocably ruined.
Edited by Vilespirit on 5/15/2011 7:20 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
6390
Um... Aren't all the fights on video and explained on youtube already? Are you saying that the lazy will now beat raid bosses because of this information that can now be found ingame?

And I am way to lazy to check, but since you are an 80, I am guessing that your glory days of raiding are behind you?
100 Human Priest
22685
Meh. I'm past caring, I would have seen it ahead of time in a video anyway.
83 Night Elf Death Knight
3805
Yea man I mean not having to type into a search bar to look up the spells now has really made raiding much easier. People will literally complain about anything at all that blizzard does. Any spell put on the PTR has ALWAYS been available and anyone who cares has always read what a boss does.
90 Night Elf Druid
10610

As someone who's been raiding at a higher level than most of you can ever hope to achieve, I have to say that I'm a bit saddened (though not shocked) by this slide.


Nice troll.
100 Goblin Shaman
17280
All dungeon journal tells you is what you would know after seeing the abilities used 1-3 times anyway. It just lets you start to try to decide what to do without wiping just to see what the boss does first. It isn't enough to form a complete strategy off of, but it is enough to go into the fight with some idea of what to do.

In short, no one would be getting kills without knowing everything that is the dungeon journal already anyway. It just cuts out the time wasted wiping just to learn what the boss does.
85 Dwarf Warrior
13030
People don't realize what it is to hit raids before DBM timers are made + perfected (most top end guilds have to program their own boss timers)
85 Human Death Knight
10860
so blizzard out tank-spotted tankspot.
85 Night Elf Druid
10665
I don't really agree your statement this time Vile.

People have actively been trying to datamine abilities for ages. Blizzard merely removed the needs to do that. Guilds still need to individually figure out what they want to do to deal with each ability. And even after that, execution still matters.

While I'm sure it'll impact the game to a degree, it shouldn't nearly be as bad as you believe it is.
1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Though it's pretty obvious what this feature will bring, it's far from the 'beginning of the end'. There is no linearity to raiding and never has been since it first started. Things have changed nearly every single major patch in one way or another and more severely with each expansion release.

The concept of raiding in regards to format, organization, complication, ease of access, among other things, has been shifting for a very long time. This is nothing more than another step on the ladder. I'm not really sure where blizzard intends to end up with raiding because they can't seem to ever make up their minds on how easy they really want to make everything.

As you said the top guilds will remain the top guilds. This is only another attempt to further level the playing field and removing a very important aspect of bleeding edge progression that is only really relevant to about four or five guilds.
85 Blood Elf Rogue
3805
Um... Aren't all the fights on video and explained on youtube already? Are you saying that the lazy will now beat raid bosses because of this information that can now be found ingame?

And I am way to lazy to check, but since you are an 80, I am guessing that your glory days of raiding are behind you?


Vilespirit is in Adept and posts on an alt for reasons unknown. You could probably figure out who it was if you wanted to put forth the effort.

That said, he's talking about top guilds. Part of learning a fight is learning what each ability does not having Blizzard create a tankspot guide for you.


http://imageshack.us/m/600/6130/rhyolith.png
http://imageshack.us/m/269/3922/ragm.png


The implementation of the dungeon journal is INCREDIBLY lazy. It's not a journal it is a guide. A journal is something you write in to tell about the days/encounter's events, you don't read your journal to tell you how to handle the day. If the journal was reactive to the game, ie; once an ability is unlocked you can see the ability's effects it in the journal, after 15 people die to an ability the ability will be expanded upon as shown in the sshots. Telling you what to do before you even see the encounter is just asinine.

Edit: People need to actually LOOK at the journal, it tells you exactly what to do for the ability. Trial and error would tell you Ragnaros targets people when they cluster in four or more, now the fresh lvl 85 who doesn't even have a single purple knows not to do that.
Edited by Vrin on 5/15/2011 8:32 PM PDT
85 Goblin Mage
2330
"
As someone who's been raiding at a higher level than most of you can ever hope to achieve, I have to say that I'm a bit saddened (though not shocked) by this slide."

That's like saying, as someone who has more money than any of you can ever hope to achieve in your lives, I must admit that adding an encounter journal in a video game doesn't affect anything at all that matters.
90 Blood Elf Priest
16615
05/15/2011 07:17 PMPosted by Vilespirit
Discovery and inventiveness in raiding are bad, with perfect execution being all that matters.


This is a very valid point. It's also a bad thing for us at the low end.
85 Night Elf Druid
8910
"
As someone who's been raiding at a higher level than most of you can ever hope to achieve, I have to say that I'm a bit saddened (though not shocked) by this slide."

That's like saying, as someone who has more money than any of you can ever hope to achieve in your lives, I must admit that adding an encounter journal in a video game doesn't affect anything at all that matters.


went over your head to

gratz dude
1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Do you even read what's being said? This has absolutely nothing to do with video strategies.
85 Blood Elf Rogue
3805
I dont think this is a big deal, people watch videos for info already.

now, the changes to cc...that is alarming. yeah, trash doesnt matter, but it's taking all the skill out of a trash pull. at least its fun when it requires coordinated cc.


The point is why is it instantly available to anyone and everyone. Blizzard could have catered to both crowds (progression and casual) by flagging it "seen the fight" or "realm first unlocked". Instead they just opened it right up.
85 Night Elf Priest
5635
The vast vast vast majority of raiders never go into encounters blind. We have dbm telling us what to do, tankspot video guides, and if all else fails, we have some other dude like the raid leader giving us instructions.

For every single player that isnt in a guild competing for world firsts, all this does is remove the necessity to alt-tab and read a guide. Blizzard is trying to lessen the need to use outside sources to play the game. Yes, it's going to make your experience with a new encounter a little less exciting, and yes, your opinion is valid. But you have to keep in mind that there are only a few hundred people in the world who have no choice but to begin an encounter with no "spoilers" whatsoever. For everyone else in the world, they already have access to this info, they just go out of game, or to an addon, to get it.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]