4.2 Conquest change

85 Blood Elf Rogue
9100
I hate to sort of break conduct, but this issue definitely needs some blue clarification, whether it be here or in the actual thread, but it's causing a massive stir (in the wrong direction) in the PvP community. My thread is not the only one, but the most coherent and active discussion without too much derailing seems to be occurring within it.

*(Highly rated) http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2517161989

Other topics under the same discussion (in negative tones)...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2516991729
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2522462556

You can see that a lot of us are very unhappy (and/or confused) by this change. Here's the change in question.

The game now separately tracks different Conquest Point caps for Battlegrounds and Arenas. The cap for Arena rating will always be 2/3 of the cap for Battleground rating at any given Arena rating. Players may earn a total number of Conquest Points per week equal to the higher of these two caps, but once players have reached the cap for either Arenas or Battlegrounds, they can no longer earn Conquest Points from that source. Conquest Points from Battleground holidays only count toward the total Conquest Point cap.


I think I speak for (literally) the entire PvP community when I solemnly request a more decent explanation as to how this change is going to affect the game we all play. Reading that patch note is sort of like trying to decipher hieroglyphics.

As stated, I know requesting a blue post is sort of against the rules, but this patch note being 2 days old now I think it's time we get some clarification before this blows up even further.
Edited by Zipzo on 5/12/2011 2:48 PM PDT
85 Undead Mage
5740
Down with the RBG/Arena Cap intergration!

Thumbs up to the OP.
Sounds like the same system behind splitting VP caps between heroics and raids. Can't get all your VP's from heroics, even though there's enough gains to easily cap yourself just through heroics alone.
85 Human Warrior
9770
Not sure how they can promote this feature other than making it an ugly necessity. RBG participation seems to be very low. I'm not a fan of the implementation either.
85 Human Mage
4475
The change means that you will have two weekly Conquest caps: Arena and RBG,

The Arena cap will always be 2/3 of the equivalent RBG cap. So if you had a 1500 RBG rating and 1500 Arena rating, your two Conquest caps would be:

RBG: 1500
Arena: 1000

In this scenario, you could earn up to 1000 Conquest points each week by doing Arena. After you reach your Arena cap, you can no longer earn points from doing Arena. You could, however, do RBGs to get the additional 500 Conquest points. Or, you could simply do only RBGs for the entire 1500.

Basically, you get more Conquest points for doing RBGs if you have a similar Arena rating. Presumably the change was made to increase RBG participation as well as reward people who run RBGs for the extra time/effort it takes than doing 2s/3s/5s.

Personally, I think Conquest caps for 5v5 should be at 3/4 and 2v2 at 1/2 the same RBG rating.


The problem I'm having with this change is that RBG's are not equally accessible for all servers/factions. On more PVE oriented servers such as mine, it is extremely difficult if not close to impossible to get 10 people together who are interested in PVP in order to form an RBG group. On my server 80% of the pvpers are horde. Horde can find 10 people for RBGs; Alliance cannot. I have tried. I have tried everything to get one put together on my server with no success. It penalizes people who PVP on non-PVP servers. It penalizes people who play on the underbalanced side (in my case Alliance.) I want to do RBG's; I really do. But, I have not been able to get 10 together to do them.

So, it makes me choose between playing with my friends or playing the end game of what I love to play -- PVP. I have been agonizing over that decision, because this is supposed to be a game that we play to have fun and enjoy. If they can't come up with a way for us to group cross servers to get our RBG team together, I don't see how I can enjoy this.

We were trying to get people geared up to try again to do RBG's. Blizz penalizes us for jumping arena teams to help us gear for RBG's and now penalizes us for not having enough people geared up to be able to have 10 geared enough to do RBG's.

My problem with it is not a lack of desire to do RBG's; it's a lack of equal accessibility on my server.

And again, feeling like I have to choose between end game PVP and my friends truly is making me want to stop playing. I played because I enjoyed playing PVP and being on a server with my friends.

You may say, "well then just do regular random BG's." I answer that by saying, without the gear, random BG's aren't fun - when we are seriously outgeared by the other side, it's not fun. On my server, Horde is already geared out. Alliance is not. We want to gear also. It doesn't help when Blizz makes it even more of a challenge if not an impossibility for us.
85 Goblin Priest
3030
i can queue in the dungeon finder to cap VP from heroics...i cant get a pug without sitting in trade for 30 minutes to an hour to find a RBG group that will probably only play one or two games. let us queue for pug RBG groups and there wouldnt be a problem at all.
85 Human Mage
4475
05/12/2011 03:27 PMPosted by Dankin
i can queue in the dungeon finder to cap VP from heroics...i cant get a pug without sitting in trade for 30 minutes to an hour to find a RBG group that will probably only play one or two games. let us queue for pug RBG groups and there wouldnt be a problem at all.


I'm not really for the PUG as we would then have the same problems with RBG's that we already have with BG's: bots, afkers, etc.

I am however wondering why we can't form our group of 10 cross servers. That would help a lot!
85 Goblin Priest
3030
it would suck having to deal with bot and afkers. but the system is there to have people select healing dps and tanking classes, and i dont think it would be to hard for them to put a resilience minimum on people to join.

or atleast give us an option to find people cross servers in a LFG type system. as it sits now the low pop servers that only pvp because they are outnumbered are going to be hurt alot by this new system.
85 Human Mage
4475
it would suck having to deal with bot and afkers. but the system is there to have people select healing dps and tanking classes, and i dont think it would be to hard for them to put a resilience minimum on people to join.

or atleast give us an option to find people cross servers in a LFG type system. as it sits now the low pop servers that only pvp because they are outnumbered are going to be hurt alot by this new system.


Agreed. (/cry)
it would suck having to deal with bot and afkers. but the system is there to have people select healing dps and tanking classes, and i dont think it would be to hard for them to put a resilience minimum on people to join.

or atleast give us an option to find people cross servers in a LFG type system. as it sits now the low pop servers that only pvp because they are outnumbered are going to be hurt alot by this new system.
The problem here is you are effectively just creating a "Random" bg. Not an organized group for which is qualified to be rated on their performance as a team.

If they aren't rated on the quality of their teamwork when in a place that requires teamwork to succeed... how are they eligible to be rated, then?
Community Manager
So, as many of you are interpreting this change, it is to encourage more participation in Rated Battlegrounds. We see the fact that participating in Arenas is by far the superior way of obtaining top-notch PvP gear, in terms of time investment, as a problem. If you want to maximize your Conquest Point gains in patch 4.2, you'll need to participate at least a little bit in Rated Battlegrounds.

We know this may not sound very appealing to those of you who have grown accustomed to spending as little as an hour a week getting the top PvP currency in the game via Arenas over the last couple of expansions. To put things in perspective though, the total number of items that can be purchased with Conquest Points today is much larger than what you used to be able to buy with Arena Points pre-Deathwing world explosion. And there is no longer a requirement to “grind” unrated BGs for Honor each season, so the real time investment isn't changing as much as some players are perceiving it to be.

On top of that, the frank reality is that the total time investment required in season 9 to get all your points has been much, much too low, as you could do that from a few 2v2 Arena games each week completed in less than an hour’s time. It shows that Rated Battlegrounds are currently sub-par in terms of the rate at which points can be accumulated.

We do feel this change is necessary to keep the time investment vs. high-quality item accumulation in check, even if it doesn't read well on paper. However, as always, your constructive feedback is welcomed. :)
Just scrap arena, it's not PvP anyway.
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