4.2 Conquest change

90 Draenei Priest
9485
05/13/2011 05:16 AMPosted by Dreadlycan
PvP is a lot less Gear dependent than what people make it out to be. Seriously I have like 400 resil, and I do just fine in BG's.


No, it's not. You may do fine in unrated BGs because they're mostly filled with fresh 85s who are also trying to gear up. Go against fully geared people in arena or RBGs and tell me gear doesn't matter that much.
85 Goblin Priest
5135
05/12/2011 08:45 PMPosted by Unmaime
As a heads up - thats not why people stay away from them ;)

QFT.

They stay away because it is essentially 10-man arena. It is much harder to put a group that can win a single game together and it generally requires a pvp guild, most of which don't also raid, none of which also raid on my server.

As was said before, this is just another thing Blizzard is forcing on us because they think it's good for the game. Sorta like, "all healers should be oom by the time any raid boss is almost down."

Fun in this xpac is down. Too linear, too formulaic, too grindy, too time-consuming. Arena is about the only thing I find enjoyable in this game anymore. I'm thinking more and more these days about joining the rest who have quit. It'll be cool when the hardcore raiders really are all that's left.
85 Blood Elf Mage
7400
05/13/2011 05:16 AMPosted by Dreadlycan
False. The gear is still achievable WITHOUT having to step foot in a RBG. It just might take a little bit longer. PvP is a lot less Gear dependent than what people make it out to be. Seriously I have like 400 resil, and I do just fine in BG's. Because i know how to PvP, and i know how to play my class. When you learn that, gear becomes less of an issue.


Haha, wow...I had trouble understanding the comment about vicious gear until I noted your PvP stats. Wow, try stepping into arena with any regularity, or better yet, try out one of those rated BGs with 400 resilience...then come tell me that there's no difference.
88 Night Elf Druid
11370
*%*%
YOU
I
DO
NOT
WANT
TO
DO
*%!!TY
RATED
FAILGROUNDS
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
7045
When is Diablo 3 coming out?

I feel like recently I've been asking myself this question more and more.
70 Orc Warrior
12670
If you're not running RGB's you're not maximizing your potential earnings. If you want to reach the cap and your potential each week, you will need to run RGBs.

Those that run them will have a gear and competitive advantage over those that dont.


False. The gear is still achievable WITHOUT having to step foot in a RBG. It just might take a little bit longer. PvP is a lot less Gear dependent than what people make it out to be. Seriously I have like 400 resil, and I do just fine in BG's. Because i know how to PvP, and i know how to play my class. When you learn that, gear becomes less of an issue.


I bolded the section where you argued my point for me.
85 Blood Elf Warlock
8160
I just love the mentality of the development team. If people don't do content we created, then we force them to do it indirectly!
41 Gnome Priest
310
If you're not running RGB's you're not maximizing your potential earnings. If you want to reach the cap and your potential each week, you will need to run RGBs.

Those that run them will have a gear and competitive advantage over those that dont.


False. The gear is still achievable WITHOUT having to step foot in a RBG. It just might take a little bit longer. PvP is a lot less Gear dependent than what people make it out to be. Seriously I have like 400 resil, and I do just fine in BG's. Because i know how to PvP, and i know how to play my class. When you learn that, gear becomes less of an issue.


How was that false? He just said what is going to happen. You can't maximize your weekly earnings UNLESS you are doing RBGs, you wont be as competitive unless you are running RBGs. I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.
Edited by Healstime on 5/13/2011 5:27 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Mage
7400
05/13/2011 05:22 AMPosted by Maiyr
False. The gear is still achievable WITHOUT having to step foot in a RBG. It just might take a little bit longer. PvP is a lot less Gear dependent than what people make it out to be. Seriously I have like 400 resil, and I do just fine in BG's. Because i know how to PvP, and i know how to play my class. When you learn that, gear becomes less of an issue.


Haha, wow...I had trouble understanding the comment about vicious gear until I noted your PvP stats. Wow, try stepping into arena with any regularity, or better yet, try out one of those rated BGs with 400 resilience...then come tell me that there's no difference.


Just to further add to this. At 400 resilience, you have a whopping 4.2% damage reduction. At my current resilience of almost 2400 I have abour 25% damage reduction. I'm not even in full bloodthirsty right now, and have 3 pieces of vicious.

Don't even pretend that resilience and gear "doesn't matter" in PvP.
85 Worgen Druid
3135
If you're not running RGB's you're not maximizing your potential earnings. If you want to reach the cap and your potential each week, you will need to run RGBs.

Those that run them will have a gear and competitive advantage over those that dont.


False. The gear is still achievable WITHOUT having to step foot in a RBG. It just might take a little bit longer. PvP is a lot less Gear dependent than what people make it out to be. Seriously I have like 400 resil, and I do just fine in BG's. Because i know how to PvP, and i know how to play my class. When you learn that, gear becomes less of an issue.


Your statistics page shows that you've played 8 arena games total and have won only one of them. You have never RBG'd. You've played only 108 battlegrounds, with 641 killing blows total and 925 deaths - and a total of 5 tower/flag caps. This means that you make 6 kills and 9 deaths in the average BG and cap an objective about once every 20 games.

So no, you don't know how to play your class or to PvP. Why even bother commenting on a system you're not engaged in or knowledgeable about?
85 Human Paladin
1650
Blizzard.... you already devote about 1/10th of your dev. time and effort to pvp, and now you're trying to alienate that small group even further?!

I think 99% of your pvp base will see this as a negative, I don't see how this will benefit you or the players at all...

This game has seemed to "Jump the Shark"............
85 Human Priest
3370
I really hate how this game herds players into doing certain things. Part of what made it great, back when it was great, was the freedom to enter this world and do what you find interesting. You weren't forced to do other stuff in order to get maximum enjoyment from the aspect you like. This change is just part of the trend away from that. I don't think it makes the game better.
90 Draenei Priest
9485
05/12/2011 08:29 PMPosted by Zarhym
So, as many of you are interpreting this change, it is to encourage more participation in Rated Battlegrounds


No offense, but have you stopped to think as to why Rated Battlegrounds are not popular?

Instead of trying to punish those who prefer arena as their PvP outlet of choice, why not try to make RBGs more accessible instead?

There are 3 BIG problems with RBGs:

Inaccessibility

To be competitive, you need a pretty strict team composition. 3-4 healers, 1 tank specced flag carrier, and 5-6 good dps. Yes, you could in theory pug a few people in trade, and queue up, but those groups will undoubtedly disband after a game or two because they simply cannot compete. Maybe on servers with a large PvP community putting together successful RBG groups is easy, but on a lot of them it is not. A recent devs Q&A mentioned the possibility of allowing 5-man groups to queue for RBGs. What happened to that?

Rating gain

It takes FAR FAR FAR too long to get to a respectable rating. I realize it's a little harder to gauge an individual's contribution in a BG than in an arena team, but the initial rating grind to allow our personal rating to hit our matchmaking rating should be much much quicker. In addition, there are many reports that the point gain/loss system doesn't really make sense. Some people lose rating as early as 1700, others have never lost rating after a loss even at 2900 rating. Some explanation on how the system really works would be appreciated.

Fun

I'm going to focus on the two Capture the Flag BGs here, but Gilneas is pretty terrible in this regard too. A lot of people simply do not find stacking healers and spam healing a tank with the flag for 20 minutes very fun. I realize you have been making changes to the vulnerability debuff to help in this regard, but frankly not much has changed. The playstyle that a lot of RBGs encourage is simply boring to a lot of people. Now, there are others who happen to enjoy them. Great! Why force everyone else who doesn't to do them?

Arenas and RBGs were meant to be alternate progression paths towards high level PvP gear. You are now breaking this formula for what to most of us seems like a horrible reason. Improve RBGs and make them more accessible to encourage participation. Don't punish those of us who prefer arena and can't or do not want to do RBGs.
85 Night Elf Warrior
5555
05/13/2011 05:38 AMPosted by Feilhooz
We see the fact that participating in Arenas is by far the superior way of obtaining top-notch PvP gear, in terms of time investment, as a problem. If you want to maximize your Conquest Point gains in patch 4.2, you'll need to participate at least a little bit in Rated Battlegrounds.


tl;dr: Play it our way or we'll make it so you can't have fun any other way. This is how we've designed Cata -- it's Blizzards way or the highway.


Sounds about right.
85 Undead Mage
9910
05/12/2011 08:40 PMPosted by Wirethrone
Just scrap arena, it's not PvP anyway.


The people that hate arena are the people who are not good at it.



Actually, the people that hate arena are the people that are sick and tired of the game being balanced around it.
85 Human Mage
4475
When is Diablo 3 coming out?

I feel like recently I've been asking myself this question more and more.


Yeah man, put your time and effort into another Blizzard game! Nothing can possibly go wrong.


Blizz, please bring the A team back to work on WoW.
90 Tauren Paladin
13955
05/13/2011 04:51 AMPosted by Dreadlycan
But the same could be said if I want to cap out on Valor, I have to find 9 competent AND GEARED players that know how to not stand in fire. (which seems to be more difficult than it really is with most players) And then make a wipe fest while trying to teach people new boss techniques, while the whole time having a constant massive REPAIR BILL. Not saying gold is hard to come by. But seriously, you think i want to deal with those Rtards?


And yet, PvEers now can acquire gear at a faster rate (without even setting foot in a RBG or Arena) than PvPers can through arena due to this cap change. That strikes you as fair?

Honestly, making PvP vs PvE analogies is a poor argument due to the myriad of factors that affect one and not the other. In PvE, your opponent is static. Cho'gall is going to be the same next week as he is this week. He doesn't get better weapons and armor to deal more damage and take less. But I can assure you that my opponent will likely deal more damage and take less next week. PvP is an arms race, PvE is not.

In PvE, Valor Points are not your only method of acquiring gear. You can acquire a full set of 359s without spending a single Valor Point (last I checked). Depending on your luck, you could get multiple pieces in a single raid night. For PvP, Honor Points and Conquest Points are the sole method of acquiring gear. My opponents don't drop gear. I can't buy BoE 359 Vicious from the AH. I can't get crafters to make me Vicious gear.

I mean, theoretically, a PvEer could get lucky and get 4 raid drops on a single night. PvPers don't have that luxury. If you're extremely good, you can get one piece per week (even then, some simply can't be gotten in a week). And the amount of games you have to win in Arena when you're at that level is pretty daunting, ask any 2500+ rated arena team how many games they have to play to cap that week.

It's such a terrible comparison to make. If Blizzard truly feels like the time investment through Arena is too low, then make me play more to even it out. I and the reasonable people protesting this change have suggested that. We enjoy arena so playing more to cap is fine with us.
Edited by Relapse on 5/13/2011 5:55 AM PDT
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