4.2 Conquest change

85 Tauren Druid
3900
The problems w/ rBGs:

1) The logistics of composing a group of 10 PvPers. Healers are especially hard to find, and d--nit I AM ONE.

2) The fact that higher rated people are sometimes afraid to run with lower rated people because lower rated people are generally not as experienced, but more importantly the higher rated people have something to lose (rating).

3) After the first loss, almost all groups dissolve, even guild PvP groups... especially if there are higher rated people in them. For PUGs... this is usually after the first match, after spending 45 minutes putting the thing together in the first place...

4) There needs to be more incentive for crap teams to que up and play. I'm sorry but it's true. We need more fodder for the decent-not-bad teams and more even matches for the total noobs who would like to ease into it. This does not exist. Yes, I am saying you need to get the PvE noobs in on this somehow like arenas were at one time for the weapons.

5) I really think we need to break off from the whole arena mindset and give a little something to the losers. It's one thing to lose a 5 minute match in arenas and getting right back in, but it's a whole other matter in a BG, which takes a lot more time. Very discouraging.

6) I'm all for rewarding skill, but rBGs are not arenas. If you want more time invested you need to somewhat lower the importance of the skill (rating) component and increase the grindy component.
100 Dwarf Rogue
17105
While I haven't done arenas this expansion I have tried to get groups for rated bgs and I have to say it isn't easy. While my server has lost some players it still is pretty populated and I see others spamming for groups as well but usually from what I hear the group never fills up and it falls apart. Not only that but you would of course prefer to run with people you know but that's not always the case. It's much easier to depend on one or two people for arenas who you know and are familiar playing with. Also communication is key and it's easier to communicate with people you know.

I've only managed to do a few rated bgs and it's honestly nothing special and it's not something I would ever do over arenas if I start getting serious about PvP again. Basically just from reading the blue post I can say this isn't a good thing. Forcing people to do something they don't want is almost never a good thing. I say almost cause there are times where it can be good but not often and this really isn't one of those times. I'm sure theres a big balance issue as well with rated bgs but someone probably already covered that in another post.
1 Night Elf Warrior
0
05/12/2011 10:13 PMPosted by Lankot
So, as many of you are interpreting this change, it is to encourage more participation in Rated Battlegrounds. We see the fact that participating in Arenas is by far the superior way of obtaining top-notch PvP gear, in terms of time investment, as a problem. If you want to maximize your Conquest Point gains in patch 4.2, you'll need to participate at least a little bit in Rated Battlegrounds.



I just don't see the point in this, you are forcing players to play a aspect of the game they don't really want to play just to maximize their char? Why not force PvE players to do RBGs to max on their valor points each week?

You know RBGs aren't popular, you had to remove the 15v15 bracket from the game for crying out loud. So why would you think a change like this would be best for the game?

I am completely dumbfounded.


You're an idiot... PVE is forced as well... They make us Raid to get all of the Valor points for the week!

We can only get 1280 Valor points a week, THAT IS IT...

If we do Heroics only we can only get about ~980... GUESS WHAT?! We wont get that little bit extra unless we go and do RAIDS!... So what you're saying is that we aren't forced to RAIDS? I am sure it's the same thing!
85 Human Rogue
5365
05/12/2011 10:14 PMPosted by Tori
ge as they will most likely participate in RBGs grudgingly.



well id have to disagree on that one the response to this change has been extremely negative i have not talked to one person yet who thinks this is a good idea other than ppl who work for blizzard
85 Human Rogue
5365
You're an idiot... PVE is forced as well... They make us Raid to get all of the Valor points for the week!

We can only get 1280 Valor points a week, THAT IS IT...

If we do Heroics only we can only get about ~980... GUESS WHAT?! We wont get that little bit extra unless we go and do RAIDS!... So what you're saying is that we aren't forced to RAIDS? I am sure it's the same thing!


yea and you are aware blizz just lost 600k subscribers thats like 9million usd or something like that

edit: not only is the pve grind horribly slow but its also a bunch of old re used re badged content well atleast thats all we have been seeing recently
Edited by Digitallag on 5/12/2011 10:21 PM PDT
100 Night Elf Druid
10060
As long as you can still acquire the gear required to do arena at a competitive level in a timely manner I guess it's fine.

Honestly though, you should not be making arena harder to get points in than RBG, but simply increase the time investment even further. Teams who only care about points aren't going to continue to play for 15 or more wins if they're only winning 40% or so of their games, and the teams who care about rating will play that many games a week anyway, making pvp more like raiding(pugers might not get all of the points they could get if they can only kill 2-3 bosses per week, whereas a dedicated guild will cap all of their members easily each week).
1 Night Elf Warrior
0
I just don't understand why every single PVP player I see, thinks that they should get PVP gear so fast. I really wish that Blizzard would bring back the OLD School way to get PVP gear, and that was to join battlegrounds, and to WORK for your gear!

You know, in WoTLK you would log in for 10-15 games. And people would get gear extremely fast. And when Cata came out, there were people who got gear FASTER than End Game Raiders. Now there are people who play for an hour or so, and you then log off for the week. Seriously? PVP is PVP, stop trying to say that your job is so hard.

Arenas were fine, it made it so that people could think on their feet. But now, with Resilience as annoying as it it, the whole Tank + 4 Healers can actually happen, and you cant do anything about it.

If you think that WOW was based on PVP, your sadly mistake, Blizzard could care less about the PVP community, that is why you get boring maps, that you will play on, over and over again. Wow is a PvE game, and PVP is something extra, stop thinking your Arena Teams are top notch and that you deserve more content.

And for the 12 some-odd people that keep saying you are FORCE to play more... NO, YOU'RE NOT. No one is FORCING you to play this game more, you CHOOSE to play more if you want more gear, YOU CHOOSE to do RBG's to get more Conquest points, YOU CHOOSE your path. If you cant play anymore than 1 WHOLE BIG HOUR a week, than maybe playing WoW and paying $15 a month seems like a waste?

I think Blizzard should make a Server, just for you PVP nuts. Just a Server with Stormwind or Org. And you cant leave the city. You're all locked, No Flying mounts, because whats the point, You don't care about the world or the environment, You just want to fight other people, over and over again. And they should just focus on making Battlegrounds. Oh yeah, and the server is only up 1 day a week. The other 6 days the servers are down, so that they can make changes to make every single class do the same damage, have the same racial abilities. Homogenization is what you want, right? Not one single class could Overpower the other?

Well that perfect world comes along, will you all finally be happy? Will you all just go and say "Wow, I am so tired, there is no class that can beat me, and I CANT beat anyone else, oh yeah and I have 40k Res, and my Pocket healer never runs out of mana, this is amazing.!"

As someone who plays PVP and PVE I see so much QQ'ing on the PVP side than anything else. If you're going to quit, then quit. Stop Threating, and just do it. You sound like a bunch of 15 year olds fighting over a toy.


What you just said...

You...

Bad idea my friend.

You must be so afraid of being targeted that you put up a character that is a silhouette.

PvPers are serious people in my experiences. I hate it, and if I tell them I hate it, I get yelled at. It isn't pretty.


I am not afriad of anything, I just dont want peopel to side away from the topic and start trying find any little thing that is wrong with my guy, just so they can stray away form what we are all talking about.

The population of PVP is SOOOOO low on the totem pole, you cant honestly tell me that Blizzard will ever take you seriously?

"I've tried for a month to do a rated bg, but nobody wants to do one... ever =/"

That quote should tell you enough... PVE never has to deal with that. OUR PVP population is a minority, and has and ALWAYS will be on the backburner. Stop QQ'ing already.
100 Orc Shaman
9295
I tried rated PvP once. My ass was handed to me so fast I didn't even have time to see what classes I'm playing up against. Then I was told that I need a certain level of gear and certain resil score to even consider PvP - so I simply abandoned the silly idea.

This is not to say that I don't like competitive games. I'm not generally very good at them, but at least for example is StarCraft I CAN generally find opponents of similar skill level that would give a fun challenging game. In WoW this is simply impossible.
1 Night Elf Warrior
0
You're an idiot... PVE is forced as well... They make us Raid to get all of the Valor points for the week!

We can only get 1280 Valor points a week, THAT IS IT...

If we do Heroics only we can only get about ~980... GUESS WHAT?! We wont get that little bit extra unless we go and do RAIDS!... So what you're saying is that we aren't forced to RAIDS? I am sure it's the same thing!


yea and you are aware blizz just lost 600k subscribers thats like 9million usd or something like that

edit: not only is the pve grind horribly slow but its also a bunch of old re used re badged content well atleast thats all we have been seeing recently


Blizzard could care less. 600k Subs is a drop in the bucket, They have other plans in the future, Diablo 3 and there new "TITAN" Project... they will get you back. Just because you don't like this things that they u are doing in this game, doesn't mean they wont pick it up and put all the GOOD things in the new game... WOW is the PTR for TITAN!
85 Tauren Shaman
10780
That is kind of bull**@*. If you want to slow down the rate of item acquisition in PvP, you LOWER THE CAPS. If you want to promote Rated BGs, you MAKE THEM MORE FUN TO PLAY.

You do realize that putting a points incentive on rBGs does NOT promote consistent play of them, it only promotes someone playing a couple games then never touching them again that week.

If you want more rBGs it is simple. Fix the terrible mechanics in point capture maps that only require a team to spam aoe around a flag and survive while doing it to hold points. Fix the terrible mechanics in CTF maps that allow for 1 tank spec and 3/4 healers holding a flag in their flag room is viable.



When BGs are fun, people will play them without you having to bribe them to, which is essentially what this is.

Very few people do PvP simply to get the gear just to have it. They do PvP, get the gear neeed to survive in it, in order to KEEP PLAYING IT. And what do they keep playing? Arena, because it is more fun than rBGs for most.
85 Blood Elf Mage
3925
The recent change allowing players to do their daily dungeons whenever they like over the course of a week was brilliant and accommodating. This is the accessible, yet balanced, direction WoW should be going in. All these recent and proposed changes to arenas, on the other hand, are senseless and punishing.

It feels like Blizzard is becoming seriously out of touch with the PvP community. Rather than listen to what we want, it is intent on forcing the square peg of RGBs into the round hole of PvP.

I don't want to be forced to play RGBs to stay competitive in arenas. I play over 20 hours a week, which is a heck of a lot for someone with a family, house and job. That's plenty of time to cap my Lock/Resto Shammy and DK/Disc Priest comps. But under an hour each? That proves just how out of touch Blizzard is. The Lock/Shammy comp alone can take over four hours.

In my 20+ hours a week, I'd like to do arenas and have a little time left over to do dungeons (I still haven't seen them all!) and other activities with my friends. I do not want to spend more time doing something I won't enjoy, like RGBs, just to stay competitive in arenas.

By all means, fix RGBs to make them compelling, but the test of that will be to make them compelling standing on their own, not at the cost of arenas.
85 Human Rogue
5365


Blizzard could care less. 600k Subs is a drop in the bucket, They have other plans in the future, Diablo 3 and there new "TITAN" Project... they will get you back. Just because you don't like this things that they u are doing in this game, doesn't mean they wont pick it up and put all the GOD things in the new game... WOW is the PTR for TITAN!


well i'll have you know that that warcraft is the only blizzard game i have ever played i played warcraft 2 and this mmo
85 Tauren Druid
10680
Instead of forcing people into rbgs maybe you aught to take at the underlying reasons they are not being played...

1 Night Elf Warrior
0
That is kind of bull**@*. If you want to slow down the rate of item acquisition in PvP, you LOWER THE CAPS. If you want to promote Rated BGs, you MAKE THEM MORE FUN TO PLAY.

You do realize that putting a points incentive on rBGs does NOT promote consistent play of them, it only promotes someone playing a couple games then never touching them again that week.

If you want more rBGs it is simple. Fix the terrible mechanics in point capture maps that only require a team to spam aoe around a flag and survive while doing it to hold points. Fix the terrible mechanics in CTF maps that allow for 1 tank spec and 3/4 healers holding a flag in their flag room is viable.



When BGs are fun, people will play them without you having to bribe them to, which is essentially what this is.

Very few people do PvP simply to get the gear just to have it. They do PvP, get the gear neeed to survive in it, in order to KEEP PLAYING IT. And what do they keep playing? Arena, because it is more fun than rBGs for most.


I am not sure that you're ready to hear this answer... but... REMOVE RES, and make it EXTRA STAMINA... You will fix everything! RES is killing the game, it should take 5 minutes ot kill a Mage, and 1 person shouldn't be able to kill 10 people without Dying... That is just stupid, the game should be about SKILL not GEAR!
1 Night Elf Warrior
0
The recent change allowing players to do their daily dungeons whenever they like over the course of a week was brilliant and accommodating. This is the accessible, yet balanced, direction WoW should be going in. All these recent and proposed changes to arenas, on the other hand, are senseless and punishing.

It feels like Blizzard is becoming seriously out of touch with the PvP community. Rather than listen to what we want, it is intent on forcing the square peg of RGBs into the round hole of PvP.

I don't want to be forced to play RGBs to stay competitive in arenas. I play over 20 hours a week, which is a heck of a lot for someone with a family, house and job. That's plenty of time to cap my Lock/Resto Shammy and DK/Disc Priest comps. But under an hour each? That proves just how out of touch Blizzard is. The Lock/Shammy comp alone can take over four hours.

In my 20+ hours a week, I'd like to do arenas and have a little time left over to do dungeons (I still haven't seen them all!) and other activities with my friends. I do not want to spend more time doing something I won't enjoy, like RGBs, just to stay competitive in arenas.

By all means, fix RGBs to make them compelling, but the test of that will be to make them compelling standing on their own, not at the cost of arenas.


You think that all the New Level 85's and such WANNA raid to get their max valor points?
90 Draenei Shaman
8765
05/12/2011 09:41 PMPosted by Kalisti
So, as many of you are interpreting this change, it is to encourage more participation in Rated Battlegrounds.


If you want to massively increase the participation in rated BGs, implement a LFD-style group finding system.


pretty much this, i dont feel like finding 9 other randoms in trade and sitting in a 30 minute queue just to get point capped

05/12/2011 08:29 PMPosted by Zarhym
It shows that Rated Battlegrounds are currently sub-par in terms of the rate at which points can be accumulated.

yes, im sure that is the reason rated BG's arent successful :)
85 Goblin Rogue
0
05/12/2011 08:29 PMPosted by Zarhym
However, as always, your constructive feedback is welcomed. :)


Well, there's lots of constructive feedback on this. People don't want it.

The RBG is a bust. Like it or not, Blizz, you made it this way due to lack of foresight. Four healers able to keep one tank up in a CTF wf. You killed mortal strike and similar effects already at the start of Cata. Smoke Bomb was too long....

Now you are going to increase healing crits 50% as per your patch notes (yes, it's in the patch notes, hasn't gone through yet, but when is the last time you had something in the notes not go through?).

And yet, despite these facts, you want to jam a flawed system down our throats?

Here's a prediction post patch: Teams that have 4 healers and a tank will perform well against teams that do not have that set up. Mirror matches will be slower, mostly resulting in a draw.

Too black and white? Then explain.

And I would love to invite anyone of Blizz's illustrious staff to come roll an alt on the realms that do not have that many players and see what exactly their system is like when you don't have the luxury of getting x amount of healers and a tank who are competent enough to pvp for RBGs. Cuz I'll tell ya, it's a hoot.
85 Night Elf Warrior
4955
I've been an active PvPer for 6 years now, I stayed after nerfs, class changes, PvP being reworked over and over, but this is the final straw.

You took away rating armor and replaced it by a useless color change cause it wasn't "fair" for someone better at PvP to have better gear, fine. Then you decided PvErs should just have the gear without doing any PvP if they felt like it converting extra marks, frustrating but we'll deal. Now your going to force us into an endless time sink where most of your play time will be spent looking for people instead of actually PvPing?

No thanks, you can go do your rated bgs by yourself, I'm done.

85 Human Rogue
5365
Ultimate
1 Night Elf Warrior
0
That is kind of bull**@*. If you want to slow down the rate of item acquisition in PvP, you LOWER THE CAPS. If you want to promote Rated BGs, you MAKE THEM MORE FUN TO PLAY.

You do realize that putting a points incentive on rBGs does NOT promote consistent play of them, it only promotes someone playing a couple games then never touching them again that week.

If you want more rBGs it is simple. Fix the terrible mechanics in point capture maps that only require a team to spam aoe around a flag and survive while doing it to hold points. Fix the terrible mechanics in CTF maps that allow for 1 tank spec and 3/4 healers holding a flag in their flag room is viable.



When BGs are fun, people will play them without you having to bribe them to, which is essentially what this is.

Very few people do PvP simply to get the gear just to have it. They do PvP, get the gear neeed to survive in it, in order to KEEP PLAYING IT. And what do they keep playing? Arena, because it is more fun than rBGs for most.


I am not sure that you're ready to hear this answer... but... REMOVE RES, and make it EXTRA STAMINA... You will fix everything! RES is killing the game, it should take 5 minutes ot kill a Mage, and 1 person shouldn't be able to kill 10 people without Dying... That is just stupid, the game should be about SKILL not GEAR!


I would be open to removing res in favor of buff a different stat obviously it would have to be elaborated on
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