RealID cross realm dungeon grouping thread#12

18 Blood Elf Warlock
70
Premium yea no thx.
85 Orc Shaman
8145
Premium is a Slap in the face blizzard your just saying your to Good for the Reg Player
19 Gnome Rogue
440
(Sorry for the long post, but rather than participating in an ongoing conversation--commenting on previous posts or coming back to answer criticisms of mine-- I'm simply going to make a statement of some of the thoughts I've been having.)

I think it's very naive to believe that premium in-game features would end with the announced RealID grouping feature.

Up to the present time, every paying subscriber has had access to all of the same content and systems within the live game, limited only by their willingness to A) purchase expansions and B) spend time playing the game.

And prior to now, all new systems and features that change the way we play or give us more things to do in-game have been developed and implemented with the money ALL subscribers pay, for the potential benefit of ALL players-- even if not all players choose to take advantage of these additions (e.g., some people never raid, never go through the new leveling zones, never use LFD, etc.). These features have all been expensive and time-consuming to develop, but part of the reason we pay monthly subscriptions is to fund such development. We were never subject to additional charges for any of them, and yet Blizzard continued to grow and reap record profits.

But what is going to happen when "premium" in-game features are introduced? Disregarding for a moment the fact that since RealID grouping isn't even implemented yet, the current ongoing development of said feature is necessarily being funded by players who do not and may not ever subscribe to said feature (which incidentally must be cutting into potential development projects we would normally expect our sub money to be going toward), the future of in-game feature development is going to be colored by the new categories of "standard" and "premium" subscriptions.

If one innovative game feature (cross-realm dungeons) is going to be subject to "normal" and "enhanced" access, why not another? And another? Once one in-game feature is subject to a premium fee, it lowers the bar for what we can expect as part of our standard subscription in future. From now on, we will likely get "half-features," and need a premium account to enjoy the full functionality of what the game is capable of offering.

Cast your mind back to the introduction of LFD and RealID. In both instances, players said, "I thought this would let me play with my friends on other servers. I really wish there was a way to do that." And now we hear, "Soon, you will be able to. But it will cost you." This clearly sets a precedent for the best future game improvements to be exclusive to premium accounts.

For instance, the mail system is a very likely candidate for premium "perks." We recently received an upgrade to in-game mail, in that now we are able to send mail instantly between our WoW accounts (within a battle.net account, same faction, same server). But the true improvement that players are clamoring for is being able to mail BoA's across servers (and to some extent being able to send other items between factions and servers). As with RID dungeons, Blizzard can now claim that such a mail system will be costly and difficult to implement, so it too will require a premium charge. Already some people are saying, "I'll pay the premium if it also includes X, Y, and Z!" And pretty soon all the features we really want will only be accessible behind an additional paywall.

Once there is an accretion of enhanced features separating normal and premium accounts, there is a much greater feeling of "missing out" with an ordinary account. As the premium package becomes more attractive to more players, Blizzard has much less incentive to continue developing high-quality, meaningful improvements for standard subscribers. Why develop more for standard subs when they can simply add "extras" for premiums-only and get more players paying increased rates?

Now think about what priorities there will be for maintaining quality of service for standard vs. premium features. Premium features will be expected to be of impeccable quality (after all, they cost more money; they should be better). If it comes down to talent having to polish a premium service or fix issues with standard features, I think we can all guess what will get quicker, closer attention. Pretty soon "standard" is really going to mean "sub-standard," and your regular account that used to get you access to everything is going to be noticably "lesser than."

I'm not claiming anything like, "Firelands will cost you $1 every time you enter the instance!" or "Coming soon... raiding gear, five bucks an item!" But this premium service is clearly ushering in a system of tiered gaming access. Throughout WoW's history, all subscribers have been able to enjoy all the fruits of the developers' labors. When players start supporting or using premium services, this will no longer be the case.

I don't object to this premium service because I'm cheap. We maintain five accounts in my household, and I would gladly pay an extra dollar a month for each of them if Blizzard were to announce an across-the-board sub increase to support future WoW development-- not that I believe for a moment that Blizzard is losing money on new features, but I want them to live up to what they've always said, that spending more money than other players wouldn't give anyone a better play experience. Incremental cost increases over time are reasonable and expected.

Yet with every addition to premium services, ordinary accounts, the accounts that have always given us access to everything in the game, become a worse and worse value. First it's everything minus one desirable feature. Then it's everything minus two desirable features, and so on from there. We are kidding ourselves if we think that Blizzard isn't going to turn its development more and more toward premium in-game features. Going forward, if they know they can charge extra for new features, they will.

I'm not impugning Blizzard's desire to make money, but it is my opinion that by attempting to do so under such a premium-fee-for-in-game-benefits scheme, they are betraying prior statement of purpose, customer expectation, tradition, trust, and the investment that all paying players have made in the game. The fact that they are targeting personal relationships ("pay more to play with friends!") as a source of increased revenues makes the whole business infinitely more distasteful to me. [See my previous post in thread #8: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2548836473?page=20#399 ]

One of the reasons I've been playing WoW for five-and-a-half years is that I have friends and a significant other who play. But another reason I've been loyal to WoW, specifically, rather than choosing another game, is that in my eyes the flat-rate, all-access subscription has more integrity than a tiered or a-la-carte system in ensuring equally fun possibilities for all players. After all these years, for Blizzard to suddenly announce that subscriptions aren't good enough for full access to the game, really dims my view of this game and where it's headed down the road.
100 Pandaren Priest
18230
On one end I do not like this idea of a premium subscription one bit, on the other I am curious if cross realm playing is the only thing involved with this feature? If it is, then you can forget about it. I pay FOR features like this to be included with my account, not to have to pay more just so I can enjoy my game. I mean really, what logical point is it to hinder your player base from playing with each other? This is an MMO, MMO companies make their money when people enjoy playing with each other. hence, the F2P models generating 3x their original income.

What would I pay $5-10 a month for?
- (3 per month or unlimited) server transfers
-free use of the sex/race/faction transfer ability
-features such as guild chat, remote AH, and other features.
-original WOW (1-60) is F2P


What wouldn't I pay for?
To play the game I am already paying to play
85 Blood Elf Mage
11035

You seem to ignore Rob Pardo's entire point.

The fact they chose a subscription model is so that no one customers experience in game can be any different than anyone else. The fact you keep making excuses proves that this no longer will be the case.


I ignored it because it is irrelevant. Everyone has the same opportunity to build the same quality of group on their own server from their own guild, then someone who uses the Real id. Everyone can create a character on the same server with their friends or form a guild of players they enjoy playing with and form a group from with in. Each player can still experience the game in the same way with out the real id, as those who use it.

It's not irrelevant, it's directly on point.

For the record I want to say that this issue does not even affect me. I have only one friend on Real ID and we play on the same server.

The problem is the fact of the precedence it sets. You are wrong. It will be a different gaming experience. Some people will be able to group with real life friends on other servers only if they pay the premium fee. That marks the exact difference INSIDE THE GAME that Rob Pardo was talking about. It's all about choices and options, but those who pay more will have the choice of the easier option.
90 Human Paladin
1635
Not to be conspiratorial but...

Obviously, if this feature does prove to be successful and profitable, they're going to try and repeat that success with other features in the future. That's just common sense. You go with what works.

They want to make money off this (and I have no issue with wanting to make money), but it's surely also a trial balloon being floated about to see what sorts of things we're willing to pay for. I think it's silly to think otherwise. I'm sure someone, somewhere in Blizzard's offices has other ideas for premium services sitting on the proverbial drawing board. They are developers after all. There's always something newer and better on the drawing board!

I'm not saying they're being malicious or greedy. I do think, however that this is the wrong direction to go in a subscription based game.
62 Night Elf Druid
520
Blizzard Boss: "People, we're losing subscriptions faster than ever. I need ideas!"

Developer1: "We could up the amount of content we deliver in each patch."

Developer2: "We could update player models so they don't look like they jumped out of an N64."

Developer3: "The game engine could use an upgrade."

Blizzard Boss: "no no no no NO! I need REAL ideas! Stop thinking like game developers and more like businessmen."

Office kissass: "We could implement a feature that would improve the game and the charge for it."

Blizzard Boss: "Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!"
85 Blood Elf Rogue
7805
This thread is well put together, but I found out about this through a random thread made in general chat where someone talked about the change and was expressing their discontent.

I thought they were just trolling.

Blizzard you can't be seriously considering improving the dungeon finder and then making US pay for it. You just can't. That doesn't make sense.

I want to believe you're better than that Blizzard. The dungeon finder has been an inferior, some might say 'broken' system. It's been getting some updates lately to make it more usable...but now you have to pay money to use something that should have been at its best from the beginning?

No way. I really will cancel my account for this. And I have never, ever said that on the forums before. But you're getting greedy and there are other good MMO's out there now.

I've been a WoW player for over 4 years and have stuck it out through thick and thin. Even with this lackluster expansion, I still pay my subscription because I believe that you know what you did wrong this time and are going to make it better.

But this is just greedy. You go through with this, and I will be outta here.
Edited by Scarlet on 5/20/2011 9:09 PM PDT
90 Human Paladin
6565
Creating a stop gap measure to increase revenue via Premium Accounts is not going to be a long term answer.
Figuring out why people are leaving and fixing that will be far more profitable in the long run.
85 Undead Mage
4925
Creating a stop gap measure to increase revenue via Premium Accounts is not going to be a long term answer.
Figuring out why people are leaving and fixing that will be far more profitable in the long run.


They left because of the flexible raid lockout system.. No one wants to sit around once they've done there 10mans.. and IMO i don't think they'll fix it.. i think all they can do is let us queue for bg's while in queue for a random heroic.
85 Dwarf Shaman
3695
Not a chance in hell. The next thing I hear about anything premium will result in cancellation of my subscription. Not at all worth it. This game's gone and continues to go downhill. They aren't even trying anymore.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2120
05/20/2011 07:35 PMPosted by Benjoton
They are just taking advantage of us because they know that we{ll pay it


Wrong. I will not only not get the feature, but if Blizz ends up making this premium, (Which, if we make enough of a stink here, they won't) I will unsubscribe. It's our jobs as the consumer to BOYCOTT the product if we don't like what we're getting.

If Blizz loses 1 million subscribers (Maybe more) over this, they're never going to try anything like it again.

Read this link; it's like looking into the future:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2548998068">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2548998068

EDIT:

05/20/2011 09:29 PMPosted by Ronim
Not a chance in hell. The next thing I hear about anything premium will result in cancellation of my subscription. Not at all worth it. This game's gone and continues to go downhill. They aren't even trying anymore.



More people like you, is exactly what we need. Thank you, Ronim.
Edited by Fâlcar on 5/20/2011 10:03 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Rogue
12830
They can make these premium features if this game were F2P, which it isn't. If they allow this to come it, it'll just let them have free reign to do all sorts of bad things.
43 Human Warlock
6885
very simple guys, vote with your wallet, I just did.
87 Orc Shaman
7685
(Sorry for the long post, but rather than participating in an ongoing conversation--commenting on previous posts or coming back to answer criticisms of mine-- I'm simply going to make a statement of some of the thoughts I've been having.)

I think it's very naive to believe that premium in-game features would end with the announced RealID grouping feature.

Up to the present time, every paying subscriber has had access to all of the same content and systems within the live game, limited only by their willingness to A) purchase expansions and B) spend time playing the game.

And prior to now, all new systems and features that change the way we play or give us more things to do in-game have been developed and implemented with the money ALL subscribers pay, for the potential benefit of ALL players-- even if not all players choose to take advantage of these additions (e.g., some people never raid, never go through the new leveling zones, never use LFD, etc.). These features have all been expensive and time-consuming to develop, but part of the reason we pay monthly subscriptions is to fund such development. We were never subject to additional charges for any of them, and yet Blizzard continued to grow and reap record profits.

But what is going to happen when "premium" in-game features are introduced? Disregarding for a moment the fact that since RealID grouping isn't even implemented yet, the current ongoing development of said feature is necessarily being funded by players who do not and may not ever subscribe to said feature (which incidentally must be cutting into potential development projects we would normally expect our sub money to be going toward), the future of in-game feature development is going to be colored by the new categories of "standard" and "premium" subscriptions.

If one innovative game feature (cross-realm dungeons) is going to be subject to "normal" and "enhanced" access, why not another? And another? Once one in-game feature is subject to a premium fee, it lowers the bar for what we can expect as part of our standard subscription in future. From now on, we will likely get "half-features," and need a premium account to enjoy the full functionality of what the game is capable of offering.

Cast your mind back to the introduction of LFD and RealID. In both instances, players said, "I thought this would let me play with my friends on other servers. I really wish there was a way to do that." And now we hear, "Soon, you will be able to. But it will cost you." This clearly sets a precedent for the best future game improvements to be exclusive to premium accounts.

For instance, the mail system is a very likely candidate for premium "perks." We recently received an upgrade to in-game mail, in that now we are able to send mail instantly between our WoW accounts (within a battle.net account, same faction, same server). But the true improvement that players are clamoring for is being able to mail BoA's across servers (and to some extent being able to send other items between factions and servers). As with RID dungeons, Blizzard can now claim that such a mail system will be costly and difficult to implement, so it too will require a premium charge. Already some people are saying, "I'll pay the premium if it also includes X, Y, and Z!" And pretty soon all the features we really want will only be accessible behind an additional paywall.

Once there is an accretion of enhanced features separating normal and premium accounts, there is a much greater feeling of "missing out" with an ordinary account. As the premium package becomes more attractive to more players, Blizzard has much less incentive to continue developing high-quality, meaningful improvements for standard subscribers. Why develop more for standard subs when they can simply add "extras" for premiums-only and get more players paying increased rates?

Now think about what priorities there will be for maintaining quality of service for standard vs. premium features. Premium features will be expected to be of impeccable quality (after all, they cost more money; they should be better). If it comes down to talent having to polish a premium service or fix issues with standard features, I think we can all guess what will get quicker, closer attention. Pretty soon "standard" is really going to mean "sub-standard," and your regular account that used to get you access to everything is going to be noticably "lesser than."

I'm not claiming anything like, "Firelands will cost you $1 every time you enter the instance!" or "Coming soon... raiding gear, five bucks an item!" But this premium service is clearly ushering in a system of tiered gaming access. Throughout WoW's history, all subscribers have been able to enjoy all the fruits of the developers' labors. When players start supporting or using premium services, this will no longer be the case.

I don't object to this premium service because I'm cheap. We maintain five accounts in my household, and I would gladly pay an extra dollar a month for each of them if Blizzard were to announce an across-the-board sub increase to support future WoW development-- not that I believe for a moment that Blizzard is losing money on new features, but I want them to live up to what they've always said, that spending more money than other players wouldn't give anyone a better play experience. Incremental cost increases over time are reasonable and expected.

Yet with every addition to premium services, ordinary accounts, the accounts that have always given us access to everything in the game, become a worse and worse value. First it's everything minus one desirable feature. Then it's everything minus two desirable features, and so on from there. We are kidding ourselves if we think that Blizzard isn't going to turn its development more and more toward premium in-game features. Going forward, if they know they can charge extra for new features, they will.

I'm not impugning Blizzard's desire to make money, but it is my opinion that by attempting to do so under such a premium-fee-for-in-game-benefits scheme, they are betraying prior statement of purpose, customer expectation, tradition, trust, and the investment that all paying players have made in the game. The fact that they are targeting personal relationships ("pay more to play with friends!") as a source of increased revenues makes the whole business infinitely more distasteful to me. [See my previous post in thread #8: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2548836473?page=20#399 ]

One of the reasons I've been playing WoW for five-and-a-half years is that I have friends and a significant other who play. But another reason I've been loyal to WoW, specifically, rather than choosing another game, is that in my eyes the flat-rate, all-access subscription has more integrity than a tiered or a-la-carte system in ensuring equally fun possibilities for all players. After all these years, for Blizzard to suddenly announce that subscriptions aren't good enough for full access to the game, really dims my view of this game and where it's headed down the road.


If Blizzard is paying even the slightest bit of attention to these forums. This post better be recognized.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2120
05/20/2011 09:49 PMPosted by Renwald
If they allow this to come it, it'll just let them have free reign to do all sorts of bad things.


05/20/2011 09:50 PMPosted by Cetsy
very simple guys, vote with your wallet, I just did.


05/20/2011 09:55 PMPosted by Serenade
Won't tolerate premium on in-game functionality. If it goes live our two accounts get canned.


Blizzard you can't be seriously considering improving the dungeon finder and then making US pay for it. You just can't. That doesn't make sense.


05/20/2011 08:27 PMPosted by Windwalker
Premium is a Slap in the face blizzard


05/20/2011 08:19 PMPosted by Åkira
Premium yea no thx.


I've been on the forums all day, doing all I can to make sure this doesn't happen.

You guys make me feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside.

Oh, and Tinybee, You're my hero.
85 Draenei Paladin
3835
Yet with every addition to premium services, ordinary accounts, the accounts that have always given us access to everything in the game, become a worse and worse value. First it's everything minus one desirable feature. Then it's everything minus two desirable features, and so on from there. We are kidding ourselves if we think that Blizzard isn't going to turn its development more and more toward premium in-game features. Going forward, if they know they can charge extra for new features, they will.

Quoted for truth.

I've argued in previous threads that adding premium content to the game decreases the relative value of a standard subscription, but here you've articulated that point much better than I have. The cost of the subscription won't change, of course, but the proportion of features you have access to will decrease.
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