New Raid system...no

85 Draenei Shaman
8815
Its been quite difficult to get new players into raiding with the difficulty of the first tier. Heck, ICC was out for so long that everyone got used to familiar mechanics so this one was a real shocker.

The problem with this tier is not the strength of the bosses but the exacting demands of the strategy to beat them, of everyone doing their job. Not healing people on Chim, not interrupting prototypes on Nef, getting too much corruption on Chog, these are things that the nerfbat won't hit and where most of the failures in attempts come from.

05/24/2011 07:42 PMPosted by Bashiok
Can you list those off for me? I'm not super aware of all the titles and mounts given out in Cataclysm Normal raids.

The title Defender of a Shattered World is probably the only title I can think of.
85 Draenei Paladin
3835
05/24/2011 07:40 PMPosted by Brohk
Any plans to keep the Title and Mount in the game? If so, that's one hell of a "slap in the face!" to everyone who did it before you gutted the place.

I'm sorry to hear that their enjoyment of a mount is solely derived from its exclusivity.

My brother got the raptor mount from Zul'Gurub all the way back when it was an actual raid that people ran for gear. Was he "slapped in the face" when people started outleveling it to the point that it became trivial to solo and the mount started cropping up all over the place?

The game changes. The bleeding edge of content of today becomes tomorrow's faceroll. If it's any consolation to those players, the achievements in their armories are timestamped. They still have bragging rights.
05/24/2011 07:46 PMPosted by Brohk


Can you list those off for me? I'm not super aware of all the titles and mounts given out in Cataclysm Normal raids.


I said Title (not plural) and Mount (not plural). Obviously I was referring to the Defender of a Shattered World title and the Dark phoenix mount. This isn't a case of players outgearing the content and going back to do them (which they will), you are also nerfing the content to an extreme extent. What do you feel that says about future tiers of raiding?

Should I just wait until 4.3 (or 4.4) when the Firelands receive a 20% nerf before I bother?


Why wouldn't they just add firelands to both of those achievement requirements and allow people who got it previously to keep the achievement they already received?
85 Human Mage
5375
05/24/2011 07:33 PMPosted by Goingpostal
easy level of raiding difficulty, make it 3 instead of 2



i think the model they are thinking about actually works out pretty well with only 2 levels.

hardcores in one tier, everyone else in a tier behind. there just needs to be two tiers at launch and then every new tier you nerf the last. then an icc buff situation on the very last tier.

that system means that 2 tiers of raids will always be relevant till the end.
Community Manager
I said Title (not plural) and Mount (not plural). Obviously I was referring to the Defender of a Shattered World title and the Dark phoenix mount. This isn't a case of players outgearing the content and going back to do them (which they will), you are also nerfing the content to an extreme extent. What do you feel that says about future tiers of raiding?

Should I just wait until 4.3 (or 4.4) when the Firelands receive a 20% nerf before I bother?


If you want to go back and run The Eye for Ashes of Al'ar you're welcome to do so, and I don't think you'll need a 20% nerf to help.
85 Worgen Death Knight
4560
these changes ruin the player base in terms of quality, everyone can see this here and there


Oh, so because they're bads and not casuals it is suddenly okay to say "no, you can't see this cause you SUCK." Even though their fifteen dollars is funding it for the rest of us?


they just want to be babied, they're kids that ruin the game for the people who are actually of age for this game

grant it i am being harsh but when you don't want to put in A LITTLE EFFORT for a simple goal, then... you really dont deserve to do it, its a little effort dude, is that so much to ask?


Again with generalizations. First, you must realize that "kids" are not the only ones in the category in question here. There are plenty of college students, young professionals, and middle-aged folk who do not have the time to commit to raiding guilds and are otherwise left to PUG it out. These nerfs give PUGs a better chance in the raids. They WANT to put the effort in, they just don't have the TIME or raw ABILITY. That does NOT mean that they should have NO chance whatsoever.

IF....and that's a mighty big if, you are as good as you make yourself out to be, you will be in Firelands come patch 4.2, and you will not be affected by this, and these people will not be ruining your precious challenge.
85 Human Paladin
11105
05/24/2011 07:48 PMPosted by Parenthesis
I'm sorry to hear that their enjoyment of a mount is solely derived from its exclusivity.


It's a good thing it's not. I just have a hard time accepting that what I and my guild worked hard for will be 20% easier in as little as a month - and that doesn't count the fast that people will outgear it as well. To me, it's a way of saying "Well, we are glad you worked hard and earned that title and mount, but now it's time for everyone to have it so we're going to make it easier for them."
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11855
I guess a good middle-ground for this aproach that would leave the people on top and those at the bottom equally happy would be to nerf by 20% all the tier11 raids, BUT only on normal mode, and leave the heroic modes intact.

That "could" reduce the sheer QQ from all those with tender egos that aparently are outraged that others can have fun too.

Personally, I aprove of this idea, I can't raid due to lack of time and I had actually accepted it and simply resigned myself to do only 5mans ocationally, however now that I saw these GREAT news, I'll be saving some time each weekend to actually do the tier11 raids when 4.2 is out, and will do firelands once the NEXT tier of raiding is released and ragna is nerfed as well.

That being said, I kinda sorta don't aprove of heroic modes being nerfed too. They are heroic for a reason, and thus should remain untouched. Nerf normal modes, leaving heroic modes intact, would please the elitist crowd (I think)
85 Goblin Rogue
1170
Op and everyone else complaining about the raid nerfs.. Try to remember its just a game. Go out and get some sun light and cool off a little.
13 Tauren Druid
60
I said Title (not plural) and Mount (not plural). Obviously I was referring to the Defender of a Shattered World title and the Dark phoenix mount. This isn't a case of players outgearing the content and going back to do them (which they will), you are also nerfing the content to an extreme extent. What do you feel that says about future tiers of raiding?

Should I just wait until 4.3 (or 4.4) when the Firelands receive a 20% nerf before I bother?


If you want to go back and run The Eye for Ashes of Al'ar you're welcome to do so, and I don't think you'll need a 20% nerf to help.


It was a legitimate question, I don't think the derisive reply was warranted.
85 Human Paladin
11105
I said Title (not plural) and Mount (not plural). Obviously I was referring to the Defender of a Shattered World title and the Dark phoenix mount. This isn't a case of players outgearing the content and going back to do them (which they will), you are also nerfing the content to an extreme extent. What do you feel that says about future tiers of raiding?

Should I just wait until 4.3 (or 4.4) when the Firelands receive a 20% nerf before I bother?


If you want to go back and run The Eye for Ashes of Al'ar you're welcome to do so, and I don't think you'll need a 20% nerf to help.


Yes, and that is an RNG drop that you chose to leave in the game. I could go back and practically solo Naxx for a Plagued Proto-Drake or the Undying title but those were removed. I have to ask again, what message do you feel this sends to raiders in future tiers? If they know to expect a massive nerf down the road... ?
90 Undead Rogue
13635
This is pathetic! All this will do is produce is a bunch of entitles scrubs w/ 359 gear who will think they are better than they actually are. Then, when they jump into firelands with gear they did not earn, they will wipe continuously because they never learned to play and demand more nerfs until we get the snooze fest that was wotlk.

Thanks a lot blizz. This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to quit. The seven bosses in firelands better be awesome or this is one customer that will be going elsewhere.

I hate what games and sports are turning into. Everybody has to win there can be no losers. That's not what challenge and competition is all about. Just because I pay to play little league doesn't mean I should be guaranteed a place in the little league world series. Again, this is all about money not about making a good game.
85 Gnome Priest
5740
05/24/2011 07:48 PMPosted by Pugmaster
easy level of raiding difficulty, make it 3 instead of 2



i think the model they are thinking about actually works out pretty well with only 2 levels.

hardcores in one tier, everyone else in a tier behind. there just needs to be two tiers at launch and then every new tier you nerf the last. then an icc buff situation on the very last tier.

that system means that 2 tiers of raids will always be relevant till the end.


I agree, and it could be what made BC work reasonably well, the two tiers at launch. In this tier, they could have done something like make bot & four maelstoms...err...winds the easy tier, with bwd the harder tier.

Entry level raiders spending a year or more in T11, I'm not sure how I feel about that, gives me kara nightmares.
The nerfs are a good idea, sadly it is too little too late for some people.

The intro raids should never have been so difficult on normal. Blizzard have come to this realisation as well through their own internal figures it seems.

One would love to think they have learned a lesson from this but it is doubtful.
85 Gnome Priest
5740
This is pathetic! All this will do is produce is a bunch of entitles scrubs w/ 359 gear who will think they are better than they actually are. Then, when they jump into firelands with gear they did not earn, they will wipe continuously because they never learned to play and demand more nerfs until we get the snooze fest that was wotlk.


Did heroic blues do this? If not, why would you expect T11 gear would do so? 359 will just become the new norm, with those raiding current content having much better gear.
86 Blood Elf Paladin
7355
I'm not sure if you've seen it but please watch Azeroth Daily 24/05/11, if you actually do read his comments, listen to his video, i think you'll find how alot of people feel, not trying to troll, I just honestly want you to check your fact, if what you're saying is true, then he says differently
90 Human Paladin
9475
05/24/2011 07:51 PMPosted by Brohk
I just have a hard time accepting that what I and my guild worked hard for will be 20% easier in as little as a month


Did you have an equally hard time accepting this with previous exclusive titles and mounts? I would think it would become easier to accept over time.
90 Human Paladin
9740
I completely fail to see why others cry about the nerfing of 'old' content. OP the cutting edge raiders, the pros, the elitists, as you name them - will be raiding Firelands won't they? The casuals, the bads, etc will be raiding lower tier content. Whats your probelm?

Personally I don't raid, my extent of grouping with the overwhelming majority of mouth breathing children in this game is BH, which Ive done 2 or 3 times period. I'd rather do BGs in the limited time I now play this game. My time is limited in this game because I'm bored of the rehashed content and I dislike the majority of the rude community. I could not care less about what they do with the raid content, but nerfing content therefore making it slightly easier for other players (and gearing alts) seems like a pretty good gameplay decision to me.
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