New Raid system...no

90 Undead Rogue
13785

Did heroic blues do this? If not, why would you expect T11 gear would do so? 359 will just become the new norm, with those raiding current content having much better gear.


Gear should be earned and a representation of ability. Having it should indicate that the player is both competent and dedicated. Heroics dungeons should not have been nerfed either and at the time were a representation that a person was ready to raid the initial cata tier. Now having 359 gear should be the indicator that a player is ready for firelands. By giving it away this distinction cannot be made.

Giving 359 gear to people who have not done the content, as it was intended, will enable poor players. These players, that never learned their class or bothered to study the fights, will invariably be a burden to the majority of the community. This could be fixed through developing content that teaches the players and reinforces these skills not nerfing the content. Not everyone deserves a cookie for playing.
85 Worgen Death Knight
7825
05/24/2011 07:27 PMPosted by Bashiok
By looking at actual stats, actual progression, time spent playing, where, and to what extent, we can see that most people are looking for more accessible raid content


Thank you for finally realizing this! This change of heart will problly keep me form swaping to a differnt MMO.
Edited by Æxines on 5/24/2011 8:18 PM PDT
89 Night Elf Druid
10550
There is a pretty big difference in being able to clear content when you have already gone progressed past it. Its quite another to make so people can do the same before ever even getting there


So what you are saying is that my 85s should not be able to beat MC since they did not do it at 60? Blizzard should amp up kara so 85s can't go back and do it now? I don't understand what your saying. If content is not leading edge what does it matter. The fact I have never done DM on this guy means I cant do it now when I overpower it?
It's a good thing it's not. I just have a hard time accepting that what I and my guild worked hard for will be 20% easier in as little as a month - and that doesn't count the fast that people will outgear it as well. To me, it's a way of saying "Well, we are glad you worked hard and earned that title and mount, but now it's time for everyone to have it so we're going to make it easier for them."


There will likely be a new title/mount to be had in the next tier. So, much like you can strut around and feel superior right now for your normal mode title and mount, you will soon be able to strut around and feel superior with another new title and mount, while looking down your nose at people sporting what you're using now!

The first people to cross the US mapped it. Why? So someone could come behind them and build roads. The government didn't "nerf exploration," they opened up the continent to the rest of the populace.



It's a good thing it's not. I just have a hard time accepting that what I and my guild worked hard for will be 20% easier in as little as a month - and that doesn't count the fast that people will outgear it as well. To me, it's a way of saying "Well, we are glad you worked hard and earned that title and mount, but now it's time for everyone to have it so we're going to make it easier for them."


Now it will be time for you and your guild to progress into firelands, which will be giving out a lot of new shinies for you to drool over. The casual/noob masses will always be a step behind your super skilled ass.





You two are missing the point. I am actually okay with these changes, I just don't think that people should be given the same reward (a Title and a Mount) for something that was excessively nerfed when other players had to do far more to earn it. What is the justification for it? What message does that send for future tiers? Here's a mount and title for your effort, we'll make sure everyone gets it too for less effort?
Edited by Brohk on 5/24/2011 8:20 PM PDT
89 Night Elf Druid
10550
Giving 359 gear to people who have not done the content, as it was intended, will enable poor players. These players, that never learned their class or bothered to study the fights, will invariably be a burden to the majority of the community. This could be fixed through developing content that teaches the players and reinforces these skills not nerfing the content. Not everyone deserves a cookie for playing.


Don't you see your not one of the good players? If you were and you studied as much as you say you would have much more 572 gear as opposed to what? None?
90 Human Paladin
9475
05/24/2011 08:20 PMPosted by Brohk
You two are missing the point. I am actually okay with these changes, I just don't think that people should be given the same reward (a Title and a Mount) for something that was excessively nerfed when other players had to do far more to earn it.


I'd worry less about what rewards other people are getting, and focus more on the progress of yourself and those you raid with.
90 Undead Rogue
13785
05/24/2011 08:17 PMPosted by Sontork
Blizzard do NOT listen to the TotalBiscut crowd. These people are the biggest elitist jerks who are disillusioned that everyone else these days can have a chance to raid.


This is sad you don't all deserve a trophy. I have downed one heroic boss that's it and enjoyed the challenged that the normal mode fights presented. I will probably never see the other heroics and that's just fine. Just because you pay doesn't automatically qualify you to play at the highest level.

I said it before just because you might pay to take part in a sports league (for fun just like wow) doesn't guarantee you a spot in the finals. All this will do is encourage bad play and not make the community better. Multiple difficulties could easily provide the stepwise learning opportunity to create competent players.
85 Gnome Priest
5740

Gear should be earned and a representation of ability. Having it should indicate that the player is both competent and dedicated.


It's never done that, not even in vanilla.
85 Goblin Priest
5825
I just posted my own thread about some changes that were at one point implimented in the game but are no-longer/etc. Could you take a look and see if I made any un-reasonable points?
85 Goblin Priest
5825
I just posted my own thread about some changes that were at one point implimented in the game but are no-longer/etc. Could you take a look and see if I made any un-reasonable points?
05/24/2011 08:22 PMPosted by Kurnea
You two are missing the point. I am actually okay with these changes, I just don't think that people should be given the same reward (a Title and a Mount) for something that was excessively nerfed when other players had to do far more to earn it.


I'd worry less about what rewards other people are getting, and focus more on the progress of yourself and those you raid with.


The point is also sailing over your head. Why would I worry about progressing through it if I know I can wait until 4.3 or 4.4 when the content will be nerfed? I'd get the exact same rewards but have to spend less time and effort to get them.
90 Undead Rogue
13785
[quote]

Don't you see your not one of the good players? If you were and you studied as much as you say you would have much more 572 gear as opposed to what? None?


I never claimed to be, but if I can't do the content then I can't do the content and don't deserve to see it. Its as simple as that. I have downed one heroic raid boss and that's it. I'm fine with that.

Making the content easier does not make it more fun or help to produce better players.
85 Gnome Priest
5740

You two are missing the point. I am actually okay with these changes, I just don't think that people should be given the same reward (a Title and a Mount) for something that was excessively nerfed when other players had to do far more to earn it. What is the justification for it? What message does that send for future tiers? Here's a mount and title for your effort, we'll make sure everyone gets it too for less effort?


I'm ok with that philosophy (although blizzard has long since abandoned it) in hard modes, but for normal mode rewards, that's a little silly. Given that there will be new mounts and new titles, I don't honestly see it making a big difference, but admittedly I don't have any of the cool titles or mounts, just the stuff from normal modes.
86 Gnome Mage
9665
05/24/2011 08:20 PMPosted by Brohk
You two are missing the point. I am actually okay with these changes, I just don't think that people should be given the same reward (a Title and a Mount) for something that was excessively nerfed when other players had to do far more to earn it.


I notice you got Deathcharger's reins on 4/7/11 - you shouldn't have used those, since you played the dungeon after it got nerfed to the ground, both by outleveling, outgearing, AND having the dungeon nerfed in level and difficulty.

You got reins of the ravenlord 10/20/10 - again, after content had been nerfed to the point you don't even need a druid to do the content.

Obviously, it was an error on your part using these items, since you got them LONG after the nerfs occurred. The only people, according to your logic, who should be allowed to use these items are the ones who got them when the content was relevant.
85 Goblin Rogue
0
05/24/2011 08:22 PMPosted by Kurnea
You two are missing the point. I am actually okay with these changes, I just don't think that people should be given the same reward (a Title and a Mount) for something that was excessively nerfed when other players had to do far more to earn it.


I'd worry less about what rewards other people are getting, and focus more on the progress of yourself and those you raid with.


Beat me to it: if you're having fun, why does it matter that someone else is too? Even if they had to be hand held/babysat/spoon fed the content.

Say you call a radio station and they ask you to answer a trivia question. You get the answer right, and win $1000. Yay! Time to pay that credit card bill! A week later, on the same station, a guy calls in and gets a MUCH easier question. He gets it right, and wins $1000. Is your credit card bill suddenly unpaid? Did the steak dinner you took your wife out too now, in retrospect, taste like you got it at a Sizzler?
85 Orc Warrior
3785
05/24/2011 07:41 PMPosted by Poach
CRAAAAWLING IIIIIIN MYYYYY SKIIIIIIIIN



LINKIN PARK FOREVA!


Original LP, not the new mainstream crap.
90 Undead Rogue
13785

The point is also sailing over your head. Why would I worry about progressing through it if I know I can wait until 4.3 or 4.4 when the content will be nerfed? I'd get the exact same rewards but have to spend less time and effort to get them.


This is a great point.
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