I'm Speaking from the Heart, Blizzard.

100 Night Elf Hunter
10790
It IS easy for some people.

The problem is that those people think that because it's easy for them, that means it should be easy for everyone.

Games have limited resources to allocate. They can't be all things to all people. However, neither can they offer too narrow a selection of content tuned too tightly. In my opinion, that's what Blizzard tried to do with Cataclysm.
85 Worgen Druid
4380
What else I find funny is you look at these people who claim it's easy.

They only have THREE kills on Nefarian, Cho'gal and Al'akir ... in SIX MONTHS. Yes, sooo damn easy. Oh and a handful of kills on the first couple 'easy' bosses in BoT and BWD heroic modes. Looking at the balance between the number of kills at the start of normal modes through to heroic, makes me laugh myself to tears.

Yes. So easy.


Yes it is, and we managed to get them down before 4.2. Unlike you.

Some people who raid dont actually raid every night of every week, Just saying....

85 Goblin Rogue
7245
What else I find funny is you look at these people who claim it's easy.

They only have THREE kills on Nefarian, Cho'gal and Al'akir ... in SIX MONTHS. Yes, sooo damn easy. Oh and a handful of kills on the first couple 'easy' bosses in BoT and BWD heroic modes. Looking at the balance between the number of kills at the start of normal modes through to heroic, makes me laugh myself to tears.

Yes. So easy.


I claim it's easy. I got my heroic Nefarian kill maybe a week or 2 after my first Nefarian kill. I'm sorry if you're so inept that this game is literally THAT hard for you. But don't try to rationalize that because they only got a few kills that somehow it's "hard". It's challenging, no doubt, but far from hard.
85 Draenei Death Knight
1280
I am pleased with these adjustments being something of a casual player compared to some
85 Troll Druid
6920


You haven't read anything in anything I've written save what you chose to troll.

One shot mechanics have no place in normal modes. Logging in to only show for a raid and then logging out shortly after isn't productive, the game has lost it's social ties and group orientation. There's NOTHING to do for people who aren't able to be carried or are unwilling to throw away their friends who may be bad players, aside from dailies and farming. Do you comprehend? Didn't think so.

Can't beat sense through thick skulls.


Logging in just to raid has nothing to do with current nerf argument. Thats an overall game issue and one that is the main cause for people leaving WoW. Im sorry you find current t11 hard. However it really isnt. Trying to personally attack someone is a nice defense for your weak argument.


Logging in actually has a lot more to do with it then you might think. Such as gearing up guild mates, keeping the guild healthy along with raid recruitment. Nobody really does 25's anymore, it's become barren and very rare. T11 is over tuned, again one shot mechanics do not belong in normal mode stuff, especially the first tier of the expansion. I do not recall that occurring even during BC raids (unless you count the obvious broken bosses that where bugged and acknowledged as such by blizzard and eventually fixed)

People like you, will always sit there and put others down because we don't luck out in the RNG of the 'right server' or the 'right guild' and don't have an abundance of money to just throw away to transfer constantly, and guild hop constantly like a LOT of 'raiders' do. It's weak and has zero loyalty and screams 'I'm all for ME ME ME ME ME'.

Why you must keep on making up excuses and shirking off valid statements that you KNOW are shared by MANY players is completely beyond my comprehension and you people think we're ignorant? lol.. Okay then.
66 Gnome Warrior
660


Well, I always thought that this was a game. I guess I'm mistaken. =(


Well any sense of fiction is based on something real, don't they teach this in English literature classes or something?

As well, we're real. Real people play this game. Sorry, I don't see your correlation, so until then I'm going to agree with your guess that you're sadly mistaken, but add that to a lot of things :D


Really? You are going to insult me because I was taking the side that we are talking about pixels and titles that you get above a game avatar and not a real life job. You don't know me, so why make the assumption I'm sadly mistaken about EVERYTHING . . . . oh wait "a lot of things". That's a personal attack and even your little =D doesn't sugar coat it. If anything it reeks of insult but I guess I should expect nothing less.
Quite honestly I don't think the Nerfs are needed, 359 epics and t11 gear will be available through simply running regular dungeons and kill heroic 5 man bosses and fireland quality epics will be purchasable with valor points availabe from doing the daily heroics. I think all that is more then enough to nerf t11 content by making the people first entiring MUCH better geared.
85 Worgen Druid
4380


Logging in just to raid has nothing to do with current nerf argument. Thats an overall game issue and one that is the main cause for people leaving WoW. Im sorry you find current t11 hard. However it really isnt. Trying to personally attack someone is a nice defense for your weak argument.


Logging in actually has a lot more to do with it then you might think. Such as gearing up guild mates, keeping the guild healthy along with raid recruitment. Nobody really does 25's anymore, it's become barren and very rare. T11 is over tuned, again one shot mechanics do not belong in normal mode stuff, especially the first tier of the expansion. I do not recall that occurring even during BC raids (unless you count the obvious broken bosses that where bugged and acknowledged as such by blizzard and eventually fixed)

People like you, will always sit there and put others down because we don't luck out in the RNG of the 'right server' or the 'right guild' and don't have an abundance of money to just throw away to transfer constantly, and guild hop constantly like a LOT of 'raiders' do. It's weak and has zero loyalty and screams 'I'm all for ME ME ME ME ME'.

Why you must keep on making up excuses and shirking off valid statements that you KNOW are shared by MANY players is completely beyond my comprehension and you people think we're ignorant? lol.. Okay then.


Once again im sorry you find t11 hard. Im by no means a cutting edge progression raider. I probably wont even down heroic nef. 20% nerf is still too much. It makes the raids so easy it breads more bad players (just like we saw at the start of cata) who cant down a single thing. Remeber the people complaining that Heroics were too hard. These people will then cry about firelands being so hard. If you dont allow people to improve they never will.
85 Night Elf Priest
8855
I really am disappointed in your choice to nerf raid content. While I understand (sort of), the reason why, I think that we're going to run into the same problem where people will say that T11 is too hard, because they will have steamrolled through current content.

Look, it's not that I don't want players who want an easier experience to experience the raid content. It's just that difficulty of raid content is part of the experience. I understand that you want to cater to a lot of people, Blizzard...

But have some integrity. You could have increased the quality of life of the actual game by leaving the difficulty as is. It leaves people with things to do.

I'm not going to say that 'you've caved into the QQ' because that's derogatory and rude. But I will say that I'm sad and disappointed that you make it so easy for players, only for those players to turn around and complain about how difficult content is the next patch.

It makes me sad to see the type of community that we're in. What happened to liking the challenge in something?


Maybe it is just me, but seeing as how you only downed 5 Uldaur raid bosses in wotlk and only the pvp easymode Boss in TB in cata twice, I am not sure you are the proper one to speak to how "easy" things are.
90 Troll Shaman
7770


Well any sense of fiction is based on something real, don't they teach this in English literature classes or something?

As well, we're real. Real people play this game. Sorry, I don't see your correlation, so until then I'm going to agree with your guess that you're sadly mistaken, but add that to a lot of things :D


Really? You are going to insult me because I was taking the side that we are talking about pixels and titles that you get above a game avatar and not a real life job. You don't know me, so why make the assumption I'm sadly mistaken about EVERYTHING . . . . oh wait "a lot of things". That's a personal attack and even your little =D doesn't sugar coat it. If anything it reeks of insult but I guess I should expect nothing less.
Whirly... Good for you.
People like that give gamers a bad reputation.
90 Troll Shaman
7770
05/24/2011 04:09 PMPosted by Destius
Quite honestly I don't think the Nerfs are needed, 359 epics and t11 gear will be available through simply running regular dungeons and kill heroic 5 man bosses and fireland quality epics will be purchasable with valor points availabe from doing the daily heroics. I think all that is more then enough to nerf t11 content by making the people first entiring MUCH better geared.
Makes sense.
90 Orc Rogue
17960
As long as Blizzard continues not to cave in to nerfing whatever is current content, I am perfectly alright with these changes.
85 Human Paladin
2380
05/24/2011 11:44 AMPosted by Fayp
What we are seeing is just obsolete content getting nerfed to people can get geared easier for Firelands.


Being able to get tier 11 from heroics is more than enough gearing for pre-firelands.

These nerfs are taking away the player's ability to learn and grow as raiders.

*Complaint about raiding from players that shouldn't be raiding in the first place*

"Okay, we'll simplify it so you don't have to put in any effort."


And why are these "non-raiders" raiding? Because they have nothing else to do. This first tier gave raiders something to do via Raids and, early on, Dungeons. Payers who don't play like raiders were at a loss, and either left or tried raiding and found that it was hard.

So they complain. And Blizzard delivers.

Disappointing.
82 Blood Elf Paladin
5345
It generally feels like the Cataclysm formula isn't working amazingly well - like Blizzard should shift their approach a bit somewhere.

1). The dungeon finder reduces the lifespan of dungeons by degrading their social dimension and making them "spammable-by-algorithm";
2). People expect dungeons to be balanced around dungeon finder groups, which tend to be disorganized, silent, etc., so it's much more difficult for Blizzard to hit the sweet spot in terms of tuning;
3). The spread of AoE has also reduced the lifespan of dungeons, as once it's possible for a tank to pick up all the mobs without issue, skill is removed from the equation and dungeons become all the more mind numbing;
4). Another side-effect of the dungeon finder: as people spam dungeons and get better gear, they aren't necessarily making connections, adding people to their guild, or finding decent guilds to play with;
5). There's all this emphasis on badges/emblems/points, making gear progression easier but less compelling;
6). etc.

In the end, tuning swings wildly in this or that direction and I'm not sure a ton of people are fulfilled. I'd say that has more to do with why people have left than the fact that T11 was relatively difficult.

(Yeah, the transition from the focus on the dungeon finder to the point about T11's difficulty was somewhat jarring. I didn't have time to flesh out this post. =P)
Edited by Zambos on 5/24/2011 4:17 PM PDT
85 Worgen Druid
4380
05/24/2011 04:09 PMPosted by Destius
Quite honestly I don't think the Nerfs are needed, 359 epics and t11 gear will be available through simply running regular dungeons and kill heroic 5 man bosses and fireland quality epics will be purchasable with valor points availabe from doing the daily heroics. I think all that is more then enough to nerf t11 content by making the people first entiring MUCH better geared.


^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^
87 Blood Elf Paladin
8950
If you want hard raid content the Firelands is there for you.

What we are seeing is just obsolete content getting nerfed to people can get geared easier for Firelands.


I agree with this but i also agree with the OP.

The T11 content being nerfed is already nerfed with the current VP gear coming down to cost JP instead, which imo, is enough of a nerf.

Having said that, it will help some struggling guilds, like mine, who have yet to defeat the final boss of any raid.

I guess it goes back to what i was saying in a thread yesterday regarding the VP - JP conversion coming in 4.2, once T12 content comes out, the progression path is the same as it is now.

4.0-4.1 - Reach 85, Grind Normals for Gear to do heroics, Grind heroics for gear to raid T11 Content.

4.2 - reach 85, Grind Normals for Gear to do heroics, Grind heroics for gear to raid T12 Content.

The Content has been out for nearly 6 months now, if you havn't competed it, you're probably on the verge of really wanting to just get it done and move on, nerfing the content helps to do that, allows the stragglers to catch up, and get into the latest content, instead of piss farting around in the old stuff.
85 Gnome Mage
4690
05/24/2011 04:12 PMPosted by Divinez
As long as Blizzard continues not to cave in to nerfing whatever is current content, I am perfectly alright with these changes.


Soon.
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