I'm Speaking from the Heart, Blizzard.

90 Gnome Warlock
1785
05/24/2011 01:06 PMPosted by Bashiok
There's always going to be two sides of the fence, some people want things more accessible for them and that's cool, we want it to be too, and some people think it should be difficult and always be that way because that's the way they had to do it.


What about those of us that don't care if others get to do the fights with the "lolfaceroll" nerfs, but would still prefer doing the fights in their original difficulty because the nerfs trivialize the encounters?

We essentially get shafted by being in that gray area between "cutting-edge progression raider" and the "Hey look! Fire gives me a buff that lowers my health" guy.
Edited by Bomdanil on 5/25/2011 7:08 AM PDT
65 Night Elf Priest
750

What about those of us that don't care if others get to do the fights with the "lolfaceroll" nerfs, but would still prefer doing the fights in their original difficulty because the nerfs trivialize the encounters?

We essentially get shafted by being in that gray area between "cutting-edge progression raider" and the "Hey look! Fire gives me a buff that lowers my health" guy.


Oh stfu, seriously. When you go back to ulduar, are you stripping down to naxx gear first!? Really, are you?

You will be in firelands. If you are going back to 4.0 stuff, you will be out gearing with firelands gear, so you've already nerfed it that way.

I can't believe people are complaining about this. How pathetic.
85 Human Warrior
3760
Plenty of people like the challenge, but not everyone has the ability or maybe even desire to be in a guild capable of tackling it right from the get-go.

It's always been our intent to offer new raid tiers in Cataclysm that are difficult to provide challenge to the raiding guilds, and then gradually allow older content to self-nerf as people gear up through VP, and then eventual literal nerfs to the content. That's something we've been communicating for some time.

Burning Crusade swung the pendulum one way, and Wrath of the Lich King swung it back too far the other. We're attempting to find that middle ground where there's still something brutally difficult for the cutting edge, but content gradually comes down until it's extremely accessible (ie PUGable) either simply through gear proliferation, or literal content difficulty nerfs.

There's always going to be two sides of the fence, some people want things more accessible for them and that's cool, we want it to be too, and some people think it should be difficult and always be that way because that's the way they had to do it. The fact of the matter is that as an MMO the end-game bar is constantly being raised, and progression content is in general not a place where we're going to purposefully gate prestige through difficulty. There are some exceptions of course, hard modes and unlockable bosses are purposefully there to be more difficult challenges, but as a whole our intent is to create a constantly moving ramp upward for Normal difficulty raids. That has to mean that the Normal raid content that was the hardest will one day be the easiest.

You will very likely see this same happen for Firelands when the raid tier above it is released.


The middle ground is to offer more raids like Ulduar where bosses have more than one level of difficulty. The ToC, ICC, RS, BWD, BoT, Tot4W paradigm, while faster to produce is a poor system, better than Vanilla/BC but still not as good as Ulduar and OS.

Get rid of the Normal/Heroic mode lock outs and just have Boss kills. Add achivements to note which level of difficulty was killed but 1 boss, 1 kill, 1 ID, 1 "Mode", multiple difficulty settings.
Edited by Malchome on 5/25/2011 7:33 AM PDT
85 Night Elf Priest
7415
Plenty of people like the challenge, but not everyone has the ability or maybe even desire to be in a guild capable of tackling it right from the get-go.

It's always been our intent to offer new raid tiers in Cataclysm that are difficult to provide challenge to the raiding guilds, and then gradually allow older content to self-nerf as people gear up through VP, and then eventual literal nerfs to the content. That's something we've been communicating for some time.

Burning Crusade swung the pendulum one way, and Wrath of the Lich King swung it back too far the other. We're attempting to find that middle ground where there's still something brutally difficult for the cutting edge, but content gradually comes down until it's extremely accessible (ie PUGable) either simply through gear proliferation, or literal content difficulty nerfs.

There's always going to be two sides of the fence, some people want things more accessible for them and that's cool, we want it to be too, and some people think it should be difficult and always be that way because that's the way they had to do it. The fact of the matter is that as an MMO the end-game bar is constantly being raised, and progression content is in general not a place where we're going to purposefully gate prestige through difficulty. There are some exceptions of course, hard modes and unlockable bosses are purposefully there to be more difficult challenges, but as a whole our intent is to create a constantly moving ramp upward for Normal difficulty raids. That has to mean that the Normal raid content that was the hardest will one day be the easiest.

You will very likely see this same happen for Firelands when the raid tier above it is released.


I don't disagree with Blizz a lot, but this is something I openly disapprove of. Yes, I feel that people who were unable to experience T11 content be given the opportunity to, but nerfing the content like this, is not going to help those players. Yes, they will be able to experience the content, get geared, then want to try T12 content, but with the T11 Nerf, it would seem that the disparity in difficulty is going to be more significant to those Post Nerf. I think most people would simply prefer a new difficulty level.

In stead of doing nerfs across the board as a "new feature" for 4.2. Why not create a difficulty level that is a step below normal. You could make all these changes on the "Easy" setting. They could still experience the content. Still get the gear they need with the same amount of speed, but those who want to do normal-modes as they were originally designed, can.

It is just a bit disappointing that Blizzard stated in the beta, as well post launch though blue posts and Giant Ghostcrawler Blogs that Dungeons are Hard, and that they like the current design, and then follow that up with Nerfs Across the board for Heroics, and then months later, Nerfs across the Board to Normal Modes. These nerfs do not help players become better it helps players stay at the same level they currently are.

That is just my 2cp I can tell by the blue responses since these announced changes occurred, that they don't plan on allowing any feedback effect 4.2, which is disappointing, but meh, it is what it is.
85 Human Paladin
2380


What about those of us that don't care if others get to do the fights with the "lolfaceroll" nerfs, but would still prefer doing the fights in their original difficulty because the nerfs trivialize the encounters?

We essentially get shafted by being in that gray area between "cutting-edge progression raider" and the "Hey look! Fire gives me a buff that lowers my health" guy.


This is the boat I'm in. My guild's going to finish the 4.1 content, we started very late. With these nerfs, the fights will fell less like an achievement, which is what we enjoy about raiding, overcoming challenges as a group.

It's going to feel like we're the big kid who's forced to play with the younger kids.
66 Gnome Warrior
660
05/25/2011 06:04 AMPosted by Blackardin
Why does it matter? You'll be working on the NEXT tier of content while they're busy farming irrelevant loot.


Epeen. Nothing more, nothing less. There are those that immerse themselves so deeply in a silly game that they tend to base a great deal of self worth on their accomplishments in that game. While most of us gain our self worth through real life ventures such as work or family, there are those that feel threatened with normalcy in the one area of life they have the opportunity to see themselves as superior....a video game...


Careful, I got spanked back on page 8 for not equating real life with WoW and heaven forbid thinking it is "just a game".

Thank you for this. =)
65 Night Elf Priest
750


What about those of us that don't care if others get to do the fights with the "lolfaceroll" nerfs, but would still prefer doing the fights in their original difficulty because the nerfs trivialize the encounters?

We essentially get shafted by being in that gray area between "cutting-edge progression raider" and the "Hey look! Fire gives me a buff that lowers my health" guy.


This is the boat I'm in. My guild's going to finish the 4.1 content, we started very late. With these nerfs, the fights will fell less like an achievement, which is what we enjoy about raiding, overcoming challenges as a group.

It's going to feel like we're the big kid who's forced to play with the younger kids.


Move to firelands, and this time don't start late. Just because you were late means blizzard shouldn't make their previous tier more accessible!?


90 Gnome Warlock
1785
Move to firelands, and this time don't start late. Just because you were late means blizzard shouldn't make their previous tier more accessible!?


This has not been said. If anything I've been asking that they make the nerfs optional for people like myself and Tsumaki who are trying to get the last end bosses we need down but haven't been able to due to reasons that have nothing to do with the difficulty of the raids themselves.

Having the change be something people can turn off does nothing to hinder the players that struggled on Magmaw while not cheapening the fight experience for those of us that aren't afraid of finishing things in their original form.
85 Troll Rogue
10660

You will very likely see this same happen for Firelands when the raid tier above it is released.


Botton line: Beat Firelands before 4.3 and be happy!
85 Troll Rogue
10660
05/25/2011 07:06 AMPosted by Bomdanil
There's always going to be two sides of the fence, some people want things more accessible for them and that's cool, we want it to be too, and some people think it should be difficult and always be that way because that's the way they had to do it.


What about those of us that don't care if others get to do the fights with the "lolfaceroll" nerfs, but would still prefer doing the fights in their original difficulty because the nerfs trivialize the encounters?

We essentially get shafted by being in that gray area between "cutting-edge progression raider" and the "Hey look! Fire gives me a buff that lowers my health" guy.


After 6 months with the same content there's no gray area anymore. If you haven't beaten the current raiding content by now then you're probably the "fire gives buff" guy.
90 Gnome Warlock
1785
05/25/2011 08:09 AMPosted by Galbrei
If you haven't beaten the current raiding content by now then you're probably the "fire gives buff" guy.


Because there's no other possible explanation that could be the source behind not getting Nefarion down by now right?
85 Blood Elf Priest
11565
Words can't express my disdain for this news.

It's been said that the only thing that can kill WoW is Blizzard.

Bashiok, this is the worst idea your bosses have ever had and, if i were you, I'd be concerned for my job.

/quit
85 Human Paladin
4700
BASHIOK APProves of noobs of standing in the fire! you heard it we nerf it to make it easier! Why then put a post of months ago saying RAIDS ARE HARD, HEROICS ARE HARD, sound familiar? wow you guys love to contradict yourselves.
85 Blood Elf Mage
8785
Heroic modes won't be changed, this made me slightly happier. Out-dated normal content is normal content.
85 Worgen Rogue
7790
This is pathetic! All this will do is produce is a bunch of entitles scrubs w/ 359 gear who will think they are better than they actually are. Then, when they jump into firelands with gear they did not earn, they will wipe continuously because they never learned to play and demand more nerfs until we get the snooze fest that was wotlk.

Thanks a lot blizz. This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to quit. The seven bosses in firelands better be awesome or this is one customer that will be going elsewhere.

I hate what games and sports are turning into. Everybody has to win there can be no losers. That's not what challenge and competition is all about. Just because I pay to play little league doesn't mean I should be guaranteed a place in the little league world series. Again, this is all about money not about making a good game.


Ok, let's try to keep this in perspective....it's a video game...it's not a career. I remember how hard things were in vanilla and bc. I was doing end game raids back then. I was also an undergraduate college student with copious amounts of available time. I still enjoy playing but I now have a career that demands between 65-80 hours a week. So is that supposed to mean that I only get to see the same 7 instances and that's it?

If you know that you pulled off a LK kill in the days before the nerf then you have the personal satisfaction of that knowledge. You don't need to be able to lord it over other players like it's a Super Bowl ring or the Lombardi Trophy.
85 Blood Elf Priest
11565
Yup, reducing the difficulty of old content so that more people can see it will literally end WoW.

I expect them to be shutting down 3/4 of their servers by mid-June at the latest.

(in other news, you have like three weeks to get your Nef and Al'Akir kills pre-nerf. Best get cracking!)



I dare you to find me 1% of the playerbase that wants to see the raid content but can't because it is too hard. These people don't exist. The content is accessible enough and would have been nerfed plenty via the availability of new gear.
Edited by Kmean on 5/25/2011 9:23 AM PDT
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