I'm Speaking from the Heart, Blizzard.

90 Human Paladin
9475



Kind of like people crying about nerfs patch after patch?


Kind of. So people who want the game to remain a bit of a challenge and the people who, regardless of the seemingly constant changes toward "easy", want even more nerfs are the same? Gotcha.


In case you missed, they release new challenges at the same time as the nerfs. And some of us raided from the start knowing that there was a timetable for the content to stay relevant. Time to accept that this is going to remain the system for some time to come.
Edited by Kurnea on 5/25/2011 10:36 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Rogue
7280
They did that by allowing T11 to be purchased with JP come the next patch.
They didn't need to nerf content.


Because I can get weapons with JP(currently VP)?

Oh wait...

Yeah I know....It's not that I don't think people should see content...it's just that....
I'm sick and tired of playing the game that people that apparently play for 20 minutes a week designed...Not the one that Blizzard made.

I give it 3 days before people are here crying to have Firelands nerfed.


20 minutes a week? I probably spend more time logged in than you do. By a large margin.

However, I am not in a raiding guild, and do not desire to be in a raiding guild. My guild is a role playing guild, and stopped raiding with Cataclysm (for lack of interest). The nerfs to Tier 11 content may make it possible for me to PuG the Tier 11 raids.

My issue right now is that when I do log in, outside of RP, I don't have anything but a few dailies (JC/Cooking/Fishing/maybe TB) and a heroic or two to do.

Being able to go to raids now that other people are willing to go will only improve my game play experience. We're all sorry that you get your panties in a bunch over something that DOES NOT AFFECT YOU.
85 Night Elf Warrior
3620
05/25/2011 10:25 AMPosted by Deadums
I have just recently came back from a near two years break, lvled/geared up this toon to see all the fuss about cata difficulty. I am saddened by this decision from Blizzard, it makes no sense making sweeping changes to raids at this early tier.

Wrong for you to say this on so many levels, by your own admission you recently came back. This is not early tier it has been here for 6 months.


And your point? It's still the first tier of raiding in this expansion. Karazhan certainly lasted longer than six month, and no sweeping nerfs of this magnitude had been made until the grand big nerf at the end of expansion, which I certainly can understand.

There were nerfs no doubt during TBC, but most were done surgically and to help guilds progress, not holding their hand to make sure they progress.

Why tag a 20% decrease to health to so many bosses?
Edited by Sangliss on 5/25/2011 10:39 AM PDT
85 Troll Druid
11645
Yeah I do not understand this qq posts about nerfs, why do you even bother doing so, if you're good, are in a decent guild you already cleared all content and you are ready or getting ready to Firelands, why do you care if they are nerfing BoT and BWD, I honestly do not understand, it has been written many times, WoW isn't made for 5% of 12million, it is made for the other 95%.
If you are in this 5% then you get to experience some fun challenges sooner than the rest, after you cleared it why even bother to qq about nerfs, let the rest of the people see content.
What is the point to keep some content unreachable for ppl with lack of time, skill or just the drive to do a 4 hour raid.
I think it is time some people stop the qq'ing about this, and I mean both ways, there are as many people crying to get stuff nerfed as there are asking not to nerf, maybe if you spend less time worrying about the others.

I think Blizzard is doing it right, we have the Hard modes to cater to the 5% (and the 0,5% of that 5% that get world firsts) and then the rest, the time seems pretty good and even after patch 4.2 BoT and BWD won't become irrelevant right away.
Edited by Docdruid on 5/25/2011 11:00 AM PDT
85 Human Death Knight
4685
05/24/2011 01:15 PMPosted by Hiricine
I don't believe blizz has ever truly supported literal nerfs to regression content for the sake of making it accessible ever.


ALL of TBC's raid bosses were nerfed when Wrath was released.
85 Night Elf Warrior
3620


And your point? It's still the first tier of raiding in this expansion. Karazhan certainly lasted longer than six month, and no sweeping nerfs of this magnitude had been made until the grand big nerf at the end of expansion, which I certainly can understand.

There were nerfs no doubt during TBC, but most were done surgically and to help guilds progress, not holding their hand to make sure they progress.

Why tag a 20% decrease to health to so many bosses?

I would have thought my point is quite obvious, you wish hold people back who have been struggling or waiting to pug current content for the last 6 months just because you purchased the xpac late...how bloody selfish can you get.

Pointless comparing apples to oranges that was 4 years ago, the game has moved on and you need to as well.


And how bloody selfish can you get? Just because you want your purple epix mail to you doesn't mean everyone else playing the game does. And these nerfs pleases you how? By admitting to Blizzard you just ain't good enough to play their game and they need to nerf it to your standard?

So what if I bought the expac late? Just because you do not want to progress the raid doesn't mean I don't want to. And who's holding others back, if these nerfs had not been implemented, I am sure the first few bosses of firelands are easier than end bosses of current tier. Players can simply get loot from those, as well as rep gear from next tier, and make progression even easier. It's done in TBC, it's done in WOTLK, it can be done in cata.

Now according to Dungeon/Raid forum, 90% of raid guilds have down Magmaw. Does Magmaw still deserve a 20% nerf? as well as mechanics nerf? I am sure in your realm's trade channel people are already pugging BWD/BoT first few bosses. What's your view about it?
90 Draenei Shaman
8795
At the conclusion of TBC Blizzard clearly stated that they intended end game raid content to be more widely available moving forward. In Wrath of the Litch King the normal modes were too easy so in Cataclysm they have made them more difficult but still far easier than TBC.

The nerfs they are implementing are past progression periods, and have little effect on progression focused guilds.

Guilds that have not been able to clear 12/12 will still need to spend a month doing so before they will be geared enough for Firelands. Thus 12/12 and x/13 HM Guilds will still be at an advantage.

If you are concerned that you wont feel special because everyone has T11 gear then you need to get over that. Gear has been available to everyone for a long time now. If you need to feel special about get then Get Heroic mode loot and feel proud.
85 Worgen Mage
3205
05/25/2011 12:16 PMPosted by Kafuna
to the op. you and all elitists are the minority. blizz is losing subs. those lost subs are mostly if not all casual. blizz is fixing the game for the majority, casual subs to decrease the amount of lost subs. fyi


Lets be clear, I'm not an elitist by any stretch of the word.

What I want, and what I created the OP for was to illustrate how I'm sad that they are decreasing difficulty with something that doesn't need it. We already have ZA/ZG to give us more gear.

What happens if I want to take this character and then play it through the raids? I have to get a watered down version of the instance and what it was intended to be? How is that fair?

Please refrain from calling names in this thread. I'm hoping we can actually foster some good, productive discussion here.
Instance wiping happens more for me from network issues rather than difficulty.
05/25/2011 11:09 AMPosted by Sangliss
am sure in your realm's trade channel people are already pugging BWD/BoT first few bosses. What's your view about it


Not on our server, the only pugging that happens is bot trash runs
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
Plenty of people like the challenge, but not everyone has the ability or maybe even desire to be in a guild capable of tackling it right from the get-go.

It's always been our intent to offer new raid tiers in Cataclysm that are difficult to provide challenge to the raiding guilds, and then gradually allow older content to self-nerf as people gear up through VP, and then eventual literal nerfs to the content. That's something we've been communicating for some time.

Burning Crusade swung the pendulum one way, and Wrath of the Lich King swung it back too far the other. We're attempting to find that middle ground where there's still something brutally difficult for the cutting edge, but content gradually comes down until it's extremely accessible (ie PUGable) either simply through gear proliferation, or literal content difficulty nerfs.

There's always going to be two sides of the fence, some people want things more accessible for them and that's cool, we want it to be too, and some people think it should be difficult and always be that way because that's the way they had to do it. The fact of the matter is that as an MMO the end-game bar is constantly being raised, and progression content is in general not a place where we're going to purposefully gate prestige through difficulty. There are some exceptions of course, hard modes and unlockable bosses are purposefully there to be more difficult challenges, but as a whole our intent is to create a constantly moving ramp upward for Normal difficulty raids. That has to mean that the Normal raid content that was the hardest will one day be the easiest.

You will very likely see this same happen for Firelands when the raid tier above it is released.



There's a difference between making content accessible and making it obsolete.


This is true, but there needs to be a reason to go back to old content. In TBC it could still be enough of a challenge to be fun, and there was far less badge loot available to boost players straight into cutting edge content.

In WotLK they went too far the other way. There was so much badge loot that it almost negated the old content. The achievements would get the odd raid there every now and then but by and large there was no point in going back to old content.

Hopefully caty will be a mix of the two. It looks like the firelands badge loot will need firelands rep. This is a fantastic idea as it means you have to run the place to get the loot. I assume that you could probably get friendly in a week from quests and a few bosses and then the rest will take a lot longer.

And because of that there will be reason to go back to see old content. The T11 raids might be easier but there will be off night raids, or alt runs, or new player farm nights that will want a few experienced players so they can go back and see the content.
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