I'm Speaking from the Heart, Blizzard.

85 Goblin Rogue
7245



You don't know how to run a business then, if it were to "benefit the community" you'd still playing with the BC/Vanilla raiding concepts that really made the game as famous as it is now.


And the vitriolic responses continue. Blanket statements of how others are bad and you are not. Sorry, but i'll take Blizzards word this is a benefit to the community over yours, specially since they are not going around being aggressive and nasty to people.


Blanket statements? You're great at making assumptions, I give you that.

Let me just use your example of "Oh, I'll disregard what you said, make some false assumption that you're saying people are bad and yadda yadda yadda, hide behind some passive aggressive remark while talking about people being nasty to others."

Damn, that works!!!! I'm a believer!
Edited by Samanosuke on 5/25/2011 5:27 PM PDT
90 Draenei Mage
8690
Plenty of people like the challenge, but not everyone has the ability or maybe even desire to be in a guild capable of tackling it right from the get-go.

It's always been our intent to offer new raid tiers in Cataclysm that are difficult to provide challenge to the raiding guilds, and then gradually allow older content to self-nerf as people gear up through VP, and then eventual literal nerfs to the content. That's something we've been communicating for some time.

Burning Crusade swung the pendulum one way, and Wrath of the Lich King swung it back too far the other. We're attempting to find that middle ground where there's still something brutally difficult for the cutting edge, but content gradually comes down until it's extremely accessible (ie PUGable) either simply through gear proliferation, or literal content difficulty nerfs.

There's always going to be two sides of the fence, some people want things more accessible for them and that's cool, we want it to be too, and some people think it should be difficult and always be that way because that's the way they had to do it. The fact of the matter is that as an MMO the end-game bar is constantly being raised, and progression content is in general not a place where we're going to purposefully gate prestige through difficulty. There are some exceptions of course, hard modes and unlockable bosses are purposefully there to be more difficult challenges, but as a whole our intent is to create a constantly moving ramp upward for Normal difficulty raids. That has to mean that the Normal raid content that was the hardest will one day be the easiest.

You will very likely see this same happen for Firelands when the raid tier above it is released.


Thank you for posting this again. I wish people would get this through their thick skulls! There are two sides of a fence and with this you are enabling more people to see content they would normally not get a chance to see. THANK YOU!

I am one of those people who do not want to be in a big end game raiding guild. I've tried it and it's not for me. It's not because I can't learn strategies and perform well enough in raids, because I have... but I HATE the drama causing, foul mouth, little pricks who think it's alright to be mentally abusive when the content is tough and people make mistakes. I wouldn't tolerate it in real life, I sure as heck fire won't tolerate it in my fun time!

So thank you for making the content accessible to ME, because I don't want to be in a big raiding guild.
90 Human Paladin
9475
05/25/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Evirus
Remember when GC made the blog about "Heroics are hard!" and everyone cried like little kids cuz they thought he was talking down to them and treating them like children....


And now you're crying like a petulant child yourself over nerfs, despite a brand new raiding tier and that the heroic version of the previous tier is staying just as hard.

The hypocrisy is astounding. They don't get their way, they cry. You don't get your way, you bawl and whine just as much.
90 Human Mage
13530
05/25/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Evirus
Now they're going to dumb everything down so even the kid that might stab himself in eye while drinking his juice can win and YOU ASKED FOR IT!


What do I care what someone else does?

I've also never asked for anything to be nerfed or buffed actually. But i'm always against people who resort to name calling and nasty responses.

It shows a lack of maturity when you type lines like I quoted and others you've typed. In general most people don't accept immature peoples arguments because they know they are not coming from a place of reason.
85 Goblin Rogue
7245
Now they're going to dumb everything down so even the kid that might stab himself in eye while drinking his juice can win and YOU ASKED FOR IT!


What do I care what someone else does?

I've also never asked for anything to be nerfed or buffed actually. But i'm always against people who resort to name calling and nasty responses.

It shows a lack of maturity when you type lines like I quoted and others you've typed. In general most people don't accept immature peoples arguments because they know they are not coming from a place of reason.


You do know that speaking/typing in a condescending or belittling tone is an insult as well, right? If you did not care you would not post, so don't make intent to claim a sense of superiority here. Your passive aggressive way of posting shows this, it does not make you any more mature here, it just means you're able to cloak your insults. Either that or you're trolling because you aren't posting anything that deals with the topic at hand (in your words you aren't hear to talk about buffing/nerfing anything, but you'd like to delight in flaming), take your pick.
Edited by Samanosuke on 5/25/2011 5:47 PM PDT
85 Tauren Warrior
11105
05/25/2011 05:37 PMPosted by Kurnea
Remember when GC made the blog about "Heroics are hard!" and everyone cried like little kids cuz they thought he was talking down to them and treating them like children....


And now you're crying like a petulant child yourself over nerfs, despite a brand new raiding tier and that the heroic version of the previous tier is staying just as hard.

The hypocrisy is astounding. They don't get their way, they cry. You don't get your way, you bawl and whine just as much.


The amazing thing about this QQ is that this is the loudest and hardest QQ on these forums other than two other direct issues. (The reputation title issue, and the current premium services mess.) None of the discussion about things being too hard was like this, or this nasty. It's like all the posters who live off descripter's like: bad, casual, looser, aweful, and any thing else you call a player who isn't at your calibur is coming out of the wood work.


I read a post from a guy claiming that he hasn't ever posted on these forums before and was posting to say these nerfs made him quit. He then proceeded to copy and paste that post in every thread on the subject. So yea... never posts...... This is the ugly, nasty side of the WoW community people were warning Blizzard about back in January. They're the ones that claimed THOUSANDS of players quit in Wrath and would come back if their definition of challege came back. They don't live in reality.
85 Draenei Shaman
4420
05/24/2011 01:06 PMPosted by Bashiok
There's always going to be two sides of the fence, some people want things more accessible for them and that's cool, we want it to be too, and some people think it should be difficult and always be that way because that's the way they had to do it. The fact of the matter is that as an MMO the end-game bar is constantly being raised, and progression content is in general not a place where we're going to purposefully gate prestige through difficulty. There are some exceptions of course, hard modes and unlockable bosses are purposefully there to be more difficult challenges, but as a whole our intent is to create a constantly moving ramp upward for Normal difficulty raids. That has to mean that the Normal raid content that was the hardest will one day be the easiest.


NO NO NO! that's not what were saying, we are saying don't let bad players be bad!
90 Human Mage
13530
You do know that speaking/typing in a condescending or belittling tone is an insult as well, right? If you did not care you would not post, so don't make intent to claim a sense of superiority here.


I've asked how does someone else seeing/finishing content harm you and yours. No one answers without actually being insulting or claiming their argument is 100% correct. There is no discussion by those who are against the nerfs, because the general response is and has been something along the lines of "mouth breathing idiots who keyboard turn and drool don't deserve to see the content". Some posters have said it nicely and then when their argument is pointed out as actually being just a opinion and not fact they resort to the nasty responses others have used.

85 Goblin Rogue
7245



And now you're crying like a petulant child yourself over nerfs, despite a brand new raiding tier and that the heroic version of the previous tier is staying just as hard.

The hypocrisy is astounding. They don't get their way, they cry. You don't get your way, you bawl and whine just as much.


The amazing thing about this QQ is that this is the loudest and hardest QQ on these forums other than two other direct issues. (The reputation title issue, and the current premium services mess.) None of the discussion about things being too hard was like this, or this nasty. It's like all the posters who live off descripter's like: bad, casual, looser, aweful, and any thing else you call a player who isn't at your calibur is coming out of the wood work.


I read a post from a guy claiming that he hasn't ever posted on these forums before and was posting to say these nerfs made him quit. He then proceeded to copy and paste that post in every thread on the subject. So yea... never posts...... This is the ugly, nasty side of the WoW community people were warning Blizzard about back in January. They're the ones that claimed THOUSANDS of players quit in Wrath and would come back if their definition of challege came back. They don't live in reality.


I think you meant descriptors, loser, awful, and caliber :D.

I tend to not live off those names, however sometimes if the shoe fits then you have to buy a bigger size! :D

Anyways, seriously, it's a double-edged sword. You have "bads" who call those who are decent enough to play the game "elitists" and you have those "elitists" who are calling those lazy players "bad". I in fact call someone bad when they try to give real life excuses as to why they can't functionally play a game, as if having a wife and kids makes a person not be able to see that they're standing in fire. The numerous amounts of reasons tossed around is staggering, not realizing that there are many in situations very similar, if not more difficult than the ones they're living in. Lazy/bad/whatever you want to call it, if you need to make an excuse for not playing the game decently or not knowing things either after you've repeatedly wiped on a boss to the same mechanic then one should accept that they are in fact, bad. Now it's not "bad" to be bad, however it is "bad" to be such and be apathetic to improving one's situation or playstyle.

What I find funny is half the time the ones who get mad at this label are the ones who would be quick to say it's other player's fault for not doing the best they can. It may in fact be the case if you strictly run with a set group of players but in the end even a player can make that choice to lead a group themselves instead of running with those who would hinder their progress. Look back a few pages, some guy raged saying it's because "others wouldn't help him.", which is why he falls short of progression.

If you can't follow within a group, lead one. Get rid of the players who die to a mechanic/do sub-par dps, replace them with ones who don't. In the end run the only one who is accountable for one's progression is them themselves, unless they play on a server so underpopulated that there are less than 10/25 people to play with. Raiding guilds set these guidelines and make it known immediately, a person leading a PuG can do the same. I only expect the quality of the raiders around me to at least be on this mentality. That way we get something done.
Edited by Samanosuke on 5/25/2011 6:07 PM PDT
85 Human Priest
6080
I'm one of the biggest anti-nerf advocates, and I don't have any problems with making old content easier. Key word is old.

edit typo. Nerf, not nerd =3
Edited by Apollinaire on 5/25/2011 7:37 PM PDT
Plenty of people like the challenge, but not everyone has the ability or maybe even desire to be in a guild capable of tackling it right from the get-go.

It's always been our intent to offer new raid tiers in Cataclysm that are difficult to provide challenge to the raiding guilds, and then gradually allow older content to self-nerf as people gear up through VP, and then eventual literal nerfs to the content. That's something we've been communicating for some time.

Burning Crusade swung the pendulum one way, and Wrath of the Lich King swung it back too far the other. We're attempting to find that middle ground where there's still something brutally difficult for the cutting edge, but content gradually comes down until it's extremely accessible (ie PUGable) either simply through gear proliferation, or literal content difficulty nerfs.

There's always going to be two sides of the fence, some people want things more accessible for them and that's cool, we want it to be too, and some people think it should be difficult and always be that way because that's the way they had to do it. The fact of the matter is that as an MMO the end-game bar is constantly being raised, and progression content is in general not a place where we're going to purposefully gate prestige through difficulty. There are some exceptions of course, hard modes and unlockable bosses are purposefully there to be more difficult challenges, but as a whole our intent is to create a constantly moving ramp upward for Normal difficulty raids. That has to mean that the Normal raid content that was the hardest will one day be the easiest.

You will very likely see this same happen for Firelands when the raid tier above it is released.


Perfectly put. Perfectly correct and perfectly appropriate.
85 Goblin Rogue
7245
05/25/2011 06:10 PMPosted by Apollinaire
I'm one of the biggest anti-nerd advocates, and I don't have any problems with making old content easier. Key word is old.


I wonder if Fariadey would have something to say about this.
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