Mild, Medium, Spicy, Hot.

85 Undead Warlock
4155
Mild, Medium, Spicy, Hot.
Regular, Heroics, Raids, Heroic Raids.

casuals cry that they cant have everything on the menu: "Please take the spice out of that dish!!!! It's toooooooooo HOT!!!!!!!"

hardcores cry about casuals trying to remove variety from the menu: "Stop trying to make everything on the menu as bland as a slice of wonderbread!!!!!!!!"

There should be room for both folks. Sadly most people can only operate in the extremes. On these forums more often than not it's the squeaky wheel that is not only given the grease, but given credence as well....from both sides of the pew.

given the amount of normal and heroic content, anyone that is honestly casual cannot claim with a straight face that they do not have MORE than enough to do in cata, and with T12 content just around the corner, having easier access to T11 gear will make your mild and medium content even more so. As this expansion progresses so will your access to more and more content, with raid nerfs and future gear improvements more accessible. Once 4.2 is released I believe it is only a matter of time before even the most casual of folks can log in on a friday night and pug any of the T11 normal content, and with each patch progress to see the next tier. They may not see every hardmode encounter this expansion has to offer, but I fail to see the need for some folks to be so selfish as to deny other people from being able to experience hard content that is honestly, well, hard.

With the comming 4.2 raid nerfs I've seen cries about nerfing current content. If its content you've cleared, why would you care? Your armory will show the dates on which you or your guild killed who and what, your personal pride remains intact, and the fact is, if you really are as hardcore as you claim to be, you wont be stepping back into T11 content on your mains again until firelands content is on farm, and even then, just to tie up any loose ends like achievements for drakes and the like. So if you have no intention of ordering that item on the menu again, what do you care if its no longer spicy but rather reduced to medium? It makes no difference whatsoever to your experience, and it allows others to see content that they would not normally have access to. moreover, your alts will have a large pool to draw form on friday night pugs, with several casuals eagerly awaiting the opportunity to see things that you are now long tired of.

You know im right, however, im pretty sure 99.99% of you just complain to hear yourselves complain. casuals and hardcores alike.
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05/24/2011 03:43 PMPosted by Hallowman
casuals cry that they cant have everything on the menu:

You are a little confused...maybe this chart will help...

Posted first by Verelyse of Malygos
Motivated Disinterested
Casual Gets the job done Sucks
Hardcore ^ (but sooner) ^ (but wastes more time at it)

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100 Blood Elf Paladin
12270
05/24/2011 03:45 PMPosted by Solaru
casuals cry that they cant have everything on the menu:

You are a little confused...maybe this chart will help...

Posted first by Verelyse of Malygos
Motivated Disinterested
Casual Gets the job done Sucks
Hardcore ^ (but sooner) ^ (but wastes more time at it)


This, that, and the above.

I hope code brackets quote properly.
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85 Undead Warlock
4155
05/24/2011 03:45 PMPosted by Solaru
casuals cry that they cant have everything on the menu:

You are a little confused...maybe this chart will help...

Posted first by Verelyse of Malygos
Motivated Disinterested
Casual Gets the job done Sucks
Hardcore ^ (but sooner) ^ (but wastes more time at it)


confused? not so much. but based on what i wrote and how you responded, i can easily deduce that you are good at:

1. skimming
2. missing the point

hats off, bro.
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confused? not so much. but based on what i wrote and how you responded, i can easily deduce that you are good at:

1. skimming
2. missing the point

hats off, bro.

No...I read your post. You are putting forward the misconception the Casual = Bad and that Hardcore = Good. No matter you intentions, you are wrong on this point.
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85 Undead Warlock
4155
actually i never once said casual = bad.

in fact i never went into the reasons why casual folks progress at a different speeds than hardcores, mainly because my post is about something else entirely.

you did in fact miss the point.

i dont believe that hardcores = good and casuals = bad. and i never said otherwise. putting words in my mouth and WANTING me to have said such a thing dont make it so.

try again.
Edited by Hallowman on 5/24/2011 4:53 PM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
10620
Casual does not mean bad by any means. There are quite good players out there who are casual. The true difference: casuals schedule the game around their life, hardcores schedule their life around the game.
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85 Human Warlock
2930
I love the splitting it up Mild, Medium, Spicy, and Hot. I love them all, but sometimes you really want more variety in the mild entree's and with only 3 real mild(level 85 normals), it leads to sad panda.

Going with dungeon only so Mild and Medium you have:
3 Mild (HoO, GB, LostCity)
11 Medium
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85 Undead Warlock
4155
i agree nars, the first couple months of any ex pack (if following the cata model) would limit the amount of content for any casual, but think of it this way:

as the expansion continues, the menu for casuals will get larger and larger, as the menu for hardcores remains the same. in fact, with 4.2 the menu for hardcores will have shrunk a bit.

as casuals have access to T11 gear and T12 ish gear in 4.2, heroics will go from medium to mild, thus granting casuals 14 mild. also, the T11 raids will have been moved to medium, granting 12 more on the medium list for casuals.

so come 4.2 casuals will have access to 26 items on their menu. once 4.3 comes out, just add firelands raids onto the medium list, and prolly T11 harmodes.

im not saying that one group or the other really has an advantage or is getting special treatment of any sort, but i AM saying that both groups in this ex pack are getting great representation, even if its a little more on the "hot" side of things to start, its gonna be more on the "mild" side of things when this ex pack draws to a close.

i for one think blizz has balanced this ex pack very well. prolly the most balanced content wise this game has ever seen.
Edited by Hallowman on 5/24/2011 5:18 PM PDT
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Community Manager
I think the biggest issue now is that Cataclysm didn't launch with an intro raid tier. We're now following through with the stair-step method of having one hard raid and one intro raid, but it took a while to see the plan through -- which is obviously a bit jarring. So now we have a new tier, VP converts to JP, the old tier gets stepped down and the new hotness is going to be that difficult climb.

I think if we had the intro tier/hard tier available (as we will in 4.2) when the expansion first launched it would feel more natural now to see that stair step just moving forward. With the current setup it seems like we're the bad guys going in and messing with your stuff, and that view is somewhat based on not really including the new harder tier in the equation since it's not available yet. It's just not going to be an issue when the new content is available, but for now it's something to make observations and personal declarations about.
Edited by Bashiok on 5/24/2011 5:34 PM PDT
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85 Human Warrior
8645
I think the biggest issue now is that Cataclysm didn't launch with an intro raid tier. We're now following through with the stair-step method of having one hard raid and one intro raid, but it took a while to see the plan through -- which is obviously a bit jarring. So now we have a new tier, VP converts to JP, the old tier gets stepped down and the new hotness is going to be that difficult climb.

I think if we had the intro tier/hard tier available (as we will in 4.2) when the expansion first launched it would feel more natural now to see that stair step just moving forward. With the current setup it seems like we're the bad guys going in and messing with your stuff, and that view is somewhat based on not really including the new harder tier in the equation since it's not available yet. It's just not going to be an issue when the new content is available, but for now it's something to make observations and personal declarations about.


As a question, was this supposed to be the intention with Naxx/EoE, where naxx (Up to KT that had a higher tier of loot) were supposed to be an intro raid (but were still drastically undertuned for the most part), and maly was supposed to be the "harder" raid of the tier (with questionable design making him hated by a large portion of the playerbase)?

And does that mean that if it's supposed to be a stair step that we're still going to be encouraged to do the old "Stairs" beyond if we're helping with the legendary chain?
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90 Night Elf Druid
9190
I think the biggest issue now is that Cataclysm didn't launch with an intro raid tier. We're now following through with the stair-step method of having one hard raid and one intro raid, but it took a while to see the plan through -- which is obviously a bit jarring. So now we have a new tier, VP converts to JP, the old tier gets stepped down and the new hotness is going to be that difficult climb.

I think if we had the intro tier/hard tier available (as we will in 4.2) when the expansion first launched it would feel more natural now to see that stair step just moving forward. With the current setup it seems like we're the bad guys going in and messing with your stuff, and that view is somewhat based on not really including the new harder tier in the equation since it's not available yet. It's just not going to be an issue when the new content is available, but for now it's something to make observations and personal declarations about.


As a question, was this supposed to be the intention with Naxx/EoE, where naxx (Up to KT that had a higher tier of loot) were supposed to be an intro raid (but were still drastically undertuned for the most part), and maly was supposed to be the "harder" raid of the tier (with questionable design making him hated by a large portion of the playerbase)?

And does that mean that if it's supposed to be a stair step that we're still going to be encouraged to do the old "Stairs" beyond if we're helping with the legendary chain?


I think Naxx/OS were supposed to be the intro raids, and OS+3 Drakes/Maly were the 'harder' raids. Then Ulduar came along.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
11215
05/24/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Bashiok
old tier gets stepped down and the new hotness is going to be that difficult climb.


The hotness is firelands....a mere 7 bosses? totally going to entertain us for a while i'm sure
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05/24/2011 05:46 PMPosted by Tankertron
old tier gets stepped down and the new hotness is going to be that difficult climb.


The hotness is firelands....a mere 7 bosses? totally going to entertain us for a while i'm sure


Not everything can be the majesty that was Ulduar. Uld took them a very, very long time to do when they had much more resources. It was a pinnacle of raiding, but it should not be the standard people come to expect, especially given the history of raiding itself.
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Community Manager
05/24/2011 05:43 PMPosted by Lamp
And does that mean that if it's supposed to be a stair step that we're still going to be encouraged to do the old "Stairs" beyond if we're helping with the legendary chain?


If you've completed Blackwing Descent/Bastion of Twilight then you should focus on Firelands (you're ready to step up), but if you haven't yet seen most or any of BWD/BoT we want to make sure you're able to as soon as 4.2 comes out - not spend weeks running dungeons and grabbing the new gear before you can start progressing.

The content has been out quite a while, there's no reason to make people wait and spend even more time running dungeons to grab the new gear before they can start on raid content they haven't seen yet.
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