Mild, Medium, Spicy, Hot.

80 Orc Warlock
2100
I like mild sauce on my soft tacos.
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15 Goblin Warrior
100
05/24/2011 07:01 PMPosted by Yiffyton
Sorry, if you are a bad player, stop calling yourself "casual" so you do not have to look in the mirror. Casual v Hardcore just means the time you devote to the game. What you do with that time makes you good or bad.

My 9/12 boss kills wants to have a word with you.

For one, i'm not Disinterested, nor do i suck.

So your idiotic chart is invalid.


Wow... a whole 9 bosses.
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3 Blood Elf Hunter
0
I think your definition of Casual is wrong...to me a casual is someone who:

A) wants to play more but cannot find a guild that does so.
B) wants to play more but cannot find the time to do so.

From what I've seen, casuals are likely to make progress in content but get stuck on 'wall' bosses like Mimiron, Putricide, Curator, Cho'gall etc.

This community is not just 'casuals' and 'hardcores'. It is a very wide spectrum, that has sadly been split by these labels.

I think the existance of Normal and Heroic mode has polarized the community even more. The addition of 1 or two more difficulty modes could help. I also like the idea of T11 becoming the new Naxx, ie raiding 101.
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85 Undead Warlock
4155
05/24/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Bashiok
I think the biggest issue now is that Cataclysm didn't launch with an intro raid tier.


maybe. for me personally i thought you guys hit it right on the head with the tuning of cata. i would have maybe made the mild more mild and the medium a little less "spicy", but the raiding side of things felt pretty good.

i saw quite a few of the hardcore guilds comment on how difficult some of the hardmodes were, and thats a good thing, however i didnt see to many of the casual folks comment on how great it was that they had plenty to do while waiting for the second tier of gear to come out, thus allowing them to faceroll T11/heroics/normals.

so if anything, if i had a chance to armchair QB you Bash, I would have said that 5 man content probably could have been a tad bit easier, but i really really hope that the next ex pack raiding tier is designed EXACTLY how this one was done. close to perfection imo, and this comming from a guy who is no where near 13/13hm. i dont see that as a bad thing by the way, im slightly more pragmatic than the average WoW forum poster, and like Dirty Harry once said "a mans' got to know his limitations". i for one would feel like a jerk if i was selfish enough to demand that the entire game be based upon my limitations, and i can only wonder why some people on these forums dont feel that way when they demand exactly that kind of preferential treatment.
Edited by Hallowman on 5/24/2011 7:06 PM PDT
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85 Human Mage
5375
05/24/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Bashiok
I think the biggest issue now is that Cataclysm didn't launch with an intro raid tier. We're now following through with the stair-step method of having one hard raid and one intro raid, but it took a while to see the plan through -- which is obviously a bit jarring


agree 100%.

BC launched with 2 tiers and the 3rd tier came 6 months later. thats lots of content that you could spread people of varying skill levels through. people didnt have to get blocked in t4 for 6 months waiting for SSC/Tk.

if you arent going to make normal/heroic the t4/t5 split then it makes sense to launch with two tiers. of course then the problem is heroic t4 vs normal t5, who is going to run heroic t4 modes when you can just skip right to t5.

so the solution in my mind is launch with 2 tiers, dont make heroic versions of t4. just go t4 normal > t5 normal > t5 heroic > t6 normal > t6 heroic...

let the hardcores blow through t4 and move into t5/ht5 and leave t4 for the non hardcores.

winning!!!


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100 Troll Warrior
15375
i agree nars, the first couple months of any ex pack (if following the cata model) would limit the amount of content for any casual, but think of it this way:

as the expansion continues, the menu for casuals will get larger and larger, as the menu for hardcores remains the same. in fact, with 4.2 the menu for hardcores will have shrunk a bit.

as casuals have access to T11 gear and T12 ish gear in 4.2, heroics will go from medium to mild, thus granting casuals 14 mild. also, the T11 raids will have been moved to medium, granting 12 more on the medium list for casuals.

so come 4.2 casuals will have access to 26 items on their menu. once 4.3 comes out, just add firelands raids onto the medium list, and prolly T11 harmodes.

im not saying that one group or the other really has an advantage or is getting special treatment of any sort, but i AM saying that both groups in this ex pack are getting great representation, even if its a little more on the "hot" side of things to start, its gonna be more on the "mild" side of things when this ex pack draws to a close.

i for one think blizz has balanced this ex pack very well. prolly the most balanced content wise this game has ever seen.


Wasn't this the design behind normal mode and hard mode progression?

I may be mistaken but wasn't the original issue a big separation of the player base, which gated content? Thus the big push was made through valor/justice etc to shrink that gear disparity and get everyone within 1-2 tiers of each throughout an expansion?

Can guilds still choose to ignore hardmodes and progress through normal mode? Or is the tunning such that you must now run hardmodes in t1 before progressing to t2?

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85 Undead Warlock
4155
05/24/2011 06:30 PMPosted by Solaru
actually i never once said casual = bad.

Here...let me show you...

casuals cry that they cant have everything on the menu: "Please take the spice out of that dish!!!! It's toooooooooo HOT!!!!!!!"

This is what the bad players say not casuals. Casuals can see all the current content anyone else can.


and yet you failed to show me anything. instead you drew conclusions, and missed the point entire.

if this game was based on logic and reading comp, i would call you a "bad".
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85 Undead Warlock
4155
05/24/2011 07:06 PMPosted by Serenade
Middle seems to be ignored a lot, I totally agree. People who largely don't care about raids and the top 1% are the ones catered to. it's kind of weird.


salaru, if you are having further problems "getting it", may i direct you to someone that "does get it". thank you seranade.
Edited by Hallowman on 5/24/2011 7:14 PM PDT
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85 Undead Warlock
4155
05/24/2011 07:11 PMPosted by Therealgor
Can guilds still choose to ignore hardmodes and progress through normal mode? Or is the tunning such that you must now run hardmodes in t1 before progressing to t2?


we wont know for sure till we step inside firelands, but if i had to guess, goin from normal T11 to normal T12 will feel just like going from heroics to T11.

at least i hope it goes that way. i would be disappointed if 356ilvl means i could faceroll firelands normal modes, and i would also be a tad bummed if i were someone in full heroic raid gear and didnt feel like i had at least a slight advantage going in.
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85 Undead Warlock
4155
05/24/2011 07:15 PMPosted by Yourenotme


salaru, if you are having further problems "getting it", may i direct you to someone that "does get it". thank you seranade.


So they only get it if they agree with you ?

/facepalm


not at all, and you didnt get it either. my point has always been about the middle being ignored, and the crybabies on either side of the argument being unjustly catered to.

salaru thinks it has something to do with the definition of hardcores or casuals. it doesnt. if salaru wants to debate the point that i was trying to make, im more than willing to have a civil discourse on the matter.

however, im talking about apples and oranges, and salaru is talking about apple pie and orange juice.

get it?
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