Mild, Medium, Spicy, Hot.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
8330
05/24/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Bashiok
So now we have a new tier, VP converts to JP, the old tier gets stepped down and the new hotness is going to be that difficult climb.


My question is in regard to this statement. Are my current VPs going to convert to JPs when 4.2 comes out?
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
3710
If you're cutting edge you've already seen the bosses on the PTR, you've already read the strategies before the patch is anywhere near release.


This is true for the most part, but a lot of heroic encounters are not tested, and indeed had previously had mechanics that were a complete mystery before they were first pulled. However, as a previous Blue indicated they are planning on withholding information from fights like Sinestra/last phase Ragnaros, so hopefully that will be less of an issue going forward for the very top tier guilds.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
9070
I put sriracha on most anything. What does that make me?
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8330
05/24/2011 09:00 PMPosted by Talrenya
I put sriracha on most anything. What does that make me?


Awesome! That stuff rules!
Reply Quote
13 Tauren Druid
60



Normals will drop JP, Heroics will drop Valor.

Of course, keep in mind, the nerfs that were announced only apply to Normal.


Wait.

So those of us who are already sick and tired of this content are going to STILL be encouraged to minimize our time in Firelands early on because running the 4.0 heroic raids will work towards our VP cap (which is more important at the start of a raid tier than later)?

My concern is this: Heroic 4.0 raids already drop 372 gear. This is incentive enough to schedule them to the exclusion of harder Firelands bosses during our weekly limited raid time. Giving them a new reward (akin to upgrading Heroic Crusader's Coliseum to Emblems of Frost after releasing Icecrown Citadel) means that a guild will be forced to choose between progression on NEW content and rehashing OLD content that has been out for 6+ months in order to maximize the new gear they can earn.

Please consider removing the conflict between these two incentives.

The current content is old. We're tired of it. Do you expect to keep getting a full year out of a content patch like you did with ICC?


What's missing out of the two tier model that they have haphazardly slapped together prior to 4.2 is a sensible loot progression. As soon as 4.2 launches, with JP awarding ilvl359 gear and VP awarding ilvl378 gear, the incentive to run BWD/BoT/Tot4W is significantly diminished.

Raiders that have cleared T11 content and have ilvl359/372 gear will now simply proceed into Firelands.

Raiders that have not cleared any or all T11 content and have ilvl346/353/359 gear (from entry level heroics, ZA/ZG, and bits of previously VP gear) will now simply farm JP from entry level heroics to get most of their remaining ilvl359 gear. And then they will simply proceed into Firelands.

Nerfed or not nerfed, T11 raids will still take too much time given the rewards. In particular, raiders that have not cleared any or all T11 content are likely time/group/skill constrained. They have no motivation to waste time and/or energy on T11 raids, when they can start working on the first few Firelands bosses, as well as Firelands trash that will likely yield BoE epics/recipes etc.

In short, Blizzard has failed at creating two tiers of raiding because of a flawed loot system.

What was really needed at the launch of Cataclysm, was two tiers of raiding, plus three progressive tiers of points - VP/xP/JP. JP would award ilvl346 gear, commensurate with heroic gear. xP would award ilvl359 gear, commensurate with T11. VP would award ilvl372 gear, commensurate with T12.

Edit: And, Blizzard should have introduced a blue ilvl346 tier set.
Edited by Chairmancow on 5/24/2011 9:04 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Undead Warlock
4155
05/24/2011 08:24 PMPosted by Solaru
i see what you did there solaru. semantics are fun when you are bored. consider me well trolled.

Oh please...If I was trolling you, you would not be able to type straight. ;)...but I refrain from that behavior to keep my posting privileges in tact this time /halo.

Semantics had nothing to do with it. The true casuals are sick and tires of bad players calling themselves "casual" as an excuse for their suckieness and for the rest of the community lumping them in with these d-bags. As I said...semantics had nothing to do with it, just correctness. You were wrong in using the word casual in your example :)


lol no. you have your definition of this word and that word, i have my definition of those words words. they are not the same definition. and since your point is off base from the main theme, you have missed the point.

i see your point and agree with it to some extent, but i think you have and continue to miss my point.
Reply Quote
85 Human Priest
5480
This is my first character , almost everything I have done on this character to quests and dungeons are piss easy. I want some *!##ing challenge and this is coming from a person who got into this game in cataclysm. Sure I have never done a raid but if a raid is just more people with a some sort of strategy and the same difficulty level of what I have gone before then I will be disappointed. Then again I have to see how a raid is though, max level couldn't come slower at the current moment.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15040
Good post, OP.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Druid
9850
Did anyone else get hungry reading this, like really hungry? Mmm wings.

I don't know though, you could place me in the hardcore pile if you wish my only issue with this system is are the shards for the legendary staff only going to drop on heroic for T12. Lord knows that staff will remain BiS most likely till heroic deathwing. Going back and clearing T12 normal in a state of super nerfs and obtaining the staff seems a bit silly. I'm not against the normal mode nerfs though. I do think that normal content should be a little faceroll while heroic content should requo some raid prep. Like the op said what would I be doing back in T11 normal mode unless helping some less progressed buddies of mine through some fights.

All in all prolly a little to early to be thinking that far ahead in the future, just wanted to through the thought out there.
Reply Quote
05/24/2011 09:02 PMPosted by Hallowman
but i think you have and continue to miss my point

As I said, I got your point the moment I first read your thread. It is the same point I have made in other threads. (although in my much more snarky tone)

I am just saddened that you, and some others in the community, have allowed bad players to co-opt the term "casual" because they can't look in the mirror.

As a side note, have you ever heard George Carlin's bit on euphemisms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNk_kzQCclo)? To sum up, He said that if we had still been using the term "shell shock" instead of the "clean, non-threatening term" "post-traumatic stress disorder" maybe vets would get the help they need. I feel the same way about bad players. If they are called what they are and not hide behind some "clean, non-threatening term", maybe they can get the help they need too.
Reply Quote
Excellent post. I agree. Having not done the raids (and likely only dabbling as we continue forward), I don't understand why everyone gets so hurt when things changes. It is really that horrible?
Reply Quote
Stop trolling this thread. You know what he means, unless you really are that dumb.

Evidently you should read the whole thread, just on this page he said he fully meant to use the word casual. If you are wondering why that is an issue...well...read the rest of the thread :)
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
6820
05/24/2011 07:04 PMPosted by Geely
I like mild sauce on my soft tacos.

Me too because it contains no Corn Syrup, yet the Del Scorcho does. WTF?
Reply Quote
85 Gnome Priest
5740
05/24/2011 09:05 PMPosted by Mikuria
This is my first character , almost everything I have done on this character to quests and dungeons are piss easy. I want some *!##ing challenge and this is coming from a person who got into this game in cataclysm. Sure I have never done a raid but if a raid is just more people with a some sort of strategy and the same difficulty level of what I have gone before then I will be disappointed. Then again I have to see how a raid is though, max level couldn't come slower at the current moment.


Current content raids aren't being nerfed, so if you decide to get into raiding, just focus on the current tier of content instead of the obsolete raids, and you should be fine.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
2445
I agree with this stair-step method.

Brings back memories of UBRS. It's not a full raid per se, but requires 10 aptly geared people to run through content that's argubly in the middle diffculty between 5 mans and a full blown raid.

I for one, am really looking forward to it.
Reply Quote
05/24/2011 09:44 PMPosted by Solaru
Stop trolling this thread. You know what he means, unless you really are that dumb.

Evidently you should read the whole thread, just on this page he said he fully meant to use the word casual. If you are wondering why that is an issue...well...read the rest of the thread :)
You are picking at semantics in what can only be seen as an attempt to hijack the thread, which you successfully have: trolling. Dismissed.
Edited by Kastchei on 5/24/2011 9:55 PM PDT
Reply Quote
3 Blood Elf Hunter
0
OP - while I...honestly am not entirely sure what you are getting at. If you are saying casuals complain about hardmodes - I honestly see very little of this. I see far more hardcores complaining about normals being made easier and their 'kills being devalued'.

If you are saying that there should be content for both...then I agree. But the major problem with this is that it takes development time and will probably lead to a loot bloat situation like we had in T9.

I really liked the ICC buff and a similar system could work wonders at allowing players to choose their own level of spicy.


given the amount of normal and heroic content, anyone that is honestly casual cannot claim with a straight face that they do not have MORE than enough to do in cata, and with T12 content just around the corner, having easier access to T11 gear will make your mild and medium content even more so. As this expansion progresses so will your access to more and more content, with raid nerfs and future gear improvements more accessible. Once 4.2 is released I believe it is only a matter of time before even the most casual of folks can log in on a friday night and pug any of the T11 normal content, and with each patch progress to see the next tier.



See, the problem with this is that some of the people who it is aimed at (the folks who hit a wall and get frustrated with a certain boss) will barely benefit - they will still have months to wipe before relief and are likely to get frustrated long before.

On the other hand, the 'bads' as people call them, the people who constantly try to heal my Zul pugs in pvp gear really should not be catered to more than neccesary.


I think Naxx/OS were supposed to be the intro raids, and OS+3 Drakes/Maly were the 'harder' raids. Then Ulduar came along.


As far as I remember, Naxx and Ulduar were meant to be launched side-by-side, similar to how Kara and SSC etc were.

To me this would have been the perfect level. Ulduar is, was and will probably always be my favourite raid - unless they release something mindblowing down the line.

Personally, I really hope at least normal BoT/BWD are still part of the standard progression path, otherwise all of the bads that want current content nerfed will be back here in 2 days wanting T12 content nerfed.



Slippery slopes are a terrible way to argue.

Give those bads some meaningful content to do. Chances are they will be too busy to argue. If they do...well, it is something that would have happened anyway.

That's because BC was godlike and it's been downhill ever since
.
Indeed. Bring back the more BC oriented mentality you promised to have Cata take, rather than reverting to the Wrath mentality at the first sign of people whining.

I've actually been meaning to throw a thread up about this for a while.

WHY do people put BC up on such a pedastel?

I remember BC. I remember content that was brokenly overtuned (Gruul, some heroics), bugged out the wazoo (TK, SSC), required silly comps to beat and was really quite bland to look at.

I remember having to grind apps up through previous content/attunements. I remember arduous, obnoxious mats grinds.

Most of all I remember things not being especially mechanically hard or complex. What made them hard was the sheer tuning of the numbers involved or brute reflex/latency checks (Archimonde, Reliquary) that would wipe your raid if failed.

BC has it's moment, but Wrath was to me the superior expansion.

Edited by Hàlcyon on 5/24/2011 10:09 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]