Mild, Medium, Spicy, Hot.

23 Worgen Rogue
310
One time I told the lady at the Thai restaurant that I wanted my Pad Thai mild spicy, but she gave me hot spicy. I was angry and then I had really bad heartburn.
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You are picking at semantics in what can only be seen as an attempt to hijack the thread, which you successfully have: trolling. Dismissed.

You must have not read the thread as I suggested...let me quote you one of the posts..

Oh please...If I was trolling you, you would not be able to type straight. ;)...but I refrain from that behavior to keep my posting privileges in tact this time /halo.

Semantics had nothing to do with it. The true casuals are sick and tires of bad players calling themselves "casual" as an excuse for their suckieness and for the rest of the community lumping them in with these d-bags. As I said...semantics had nothing to do with it, just correctness. You were wrong in using the word casual in your example :)

(god I hate quoting myself...seem tacky)

It is not semantics to correct someone when they say "Dogs go moo."



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05/24/2011 09:02 PMPosted by Chairmancow
Nerfed or not nerfed, T11 raids will still take too much time given the rewards. In particular, raiders that have not cleared any or all T11 content are likely time/group/skill constrained. They have no motivation to waste time and/or energy on T11 raids, when they can start working on the first few Firelands bosses, as well as Firelands trash that will likely yield BoE epics/recipes etc.


Not to be snarky, but I don't know if there are raiders out there who haven't defeated anything (on at least some character). But to your point, I don't see how nerfing the content yet being the same as heroics will entice non-raiders to raid. I suppose, however, that eventually PUGs will form just to get the achievement, if not in Firelands, than perhaps in the next tier.

What was really needed at the launch of Cataclysm, was two tiers of raiding, plus three progressive tiers of points - VP/xP/JP. JP would award ilvl346 gear, commensurate with heroic gear. xP would award ilvl359 gear, commensurate with T11. VP would award ilvl372 gear, commensurate with T12.

Edit: And, Blizzard should have introduced a blue ilvl346 tier set.
I wonder if the reason against this is simply that it complicates things. For alts who want to quickly join their main raid or those needing to reroll for the guild, how would you suggest they gear up quickly in this scenario?
Edited by Kastchei on 5/24/2011 10:05 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
9070
05/24/2011 09:01 PMPosted by Karazorel
I put sriracha on most anything. What does that make me?


Awesome! That stuff rules!


http://theoatmeal.com/comics/sriracha

This is exactly how I feel about sriracha.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8250
05/24/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Bashiok
I think the biggest issue now is that Cataclysm didn't launch with an intro raid tier.

Intro raid tier or intro raid? If you mean intro raid than isnt that what the first boss of throne is, it is a highly under tuned fight that asks more of the dps to control themselves and put the damage where it should be.
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85 Undead Warlock
4155


It is not semantics to correct someone when they say "Dogs go moo."


only i didnt say dogs go moo.

you think that i am lumping in casuals and bads in the same group. i am not. since i am not, you have missed the point entire.

George Carlin was/is indeed win, however he was wise enough to realize that euphemisms and dysphemisms can both be abused. you seem to want to abuse the latter. in either case, both are bad ideas.
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And does that mean that if it's supposed to be a stair step that we're still going to be encouraged to do the old "Stairs" beyond if we're helping with the legendary chain?


If you've completed Blackwing Descent/Bastion of Twilight then you should focus on Firelands (you're ready to step up), but if you haven't yet seen most or any of BWD/BoT we want to make sure you're able to as soon as 4.2 comes out - not spend weeks running dungeons and grabbing the new gear before you can start progressing.

The content has been out quite a while, there's no reason to make people wait and spend even more time running dungeons to grab the new gear before they can start on raid content they haven't seen yet.


Well done. It might actually make me want to do some casual raiding just to see the not so old content and still be somewhat challenging since I am not a raider myself. The way it was for me before I had to run with a PUG raids that were one expansion old. And even in those some of the boss fights were so hard in terms of coordination, who had to stand where and for how long, that we couldn't get pass some of the bosses - like that poison spitting dragon in Sunwell plateau.

Even so I hated, yeah I know a strong word but that is how I feel about it, when we had to run through the whole instance and never took a brake to just look around and enjoy the place, it was always "GO GO GO" and I can't blame them. Those that were organizing the runs were familiar with the place and had no time to waste on sightseeing.

I wish there was a single mode version for every raid, where the game keeps track of how far the player is in the instance and never re-spawns the mobs that have been killed already. Once the player finishes the instance they can still go in there solo but all that is going to be left would be empty rooms and hallways. The player can be accompanied by several NPCs so it does not look like a single person went in there and cleared the whole thing up, it was a small army instead.
Edited by Douka on 5/24/2011 10:50 PM PDT
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85 Human Paladin
3610
Having information on boss abilities within the game will make fights easier than alt+tabbing to a website to read literal strategies, group placements, phase descriptions, if not ways to cheese the encounter? Pardon my sarcasm, but that's amazing! And logical.

If you're cutting edge you've already seen the bosses on the PTR, you've already read the strategies before the patch is anywhere near release. What amounts to ability tooltips is not going to tell you how to beat a boss, or make you or your raid competent enough to do so.

It's a cool feature to put drop tables within the default UI, let people get some info on the bosses, and hopefully keep them from having to tab out of the game just to get (usually incorrect) boss ability info from the internets.


Let me know when Heroic Ragnaros is on the PTR. Also, I'm fairly certain lots of fights have changed between PTR and live. "Lol you can just look up strats online" is a stupid reason to give away everything in the journal.
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85 Tauren Paladin
7685
05/24/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Bashiok
I think the biggest issue now is that Cataclysm didn't launch with an intro raid tier. We're now following through with the stair-step method of having one hard raid and one intro raid, but it took a while to see the plan through

Is there some reason you're just now sharing this "plan" with us instead of telling everyone up front how you "planned" to handle the tiers in Cata? OR is it that you guys realized you screwed up and now you're trying to backpedal and save face by pretending you meant to burn the beans?

My money is on the second because Blizzard has been very forthcoming with their plans of late and this wasn't one of the plans laid out, indicated, implied or even hinted at. To add to this, I understand that not all plans are shared with us. But this is a rather significant "plan", much bigger than removal of keyrings or flying lion mount.
Edited by Legendaîry on 5/24/2011 11:39 PM PDT
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PROS vs. BADS

it's the new soap opera on the WoW forums
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85 Goblin Mage
11910
I think the biggest issue now is that Cataclysm didn't launch with an intro raid tier. We're now following through with the stair-step method of having one hard raid and one intro raid, but it took a while to see the plan through -- which is obviously a bit jarring. So now we have a new tier, VP converts to JP, the old tier gets stepped down and the new hotness is going to be that difficult climb.

I think if we had the intro tier/hard tier available (as we will in 4.2) when the expansion first launched it would feel more natural now to see that stair step just moving forward. With the current setup it seems like we're the bad guys going in and messing with your stuff, and that view is somewhat based on not really including the new harder tier in the equation since it's not available yet. It's just not going to be an issue when the new content is available, but for now it's something to make observations and personal declarations about.


The funny thing is that you seemed to think the difficulty was fine before 600k people quit.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10010
but i havent seen BoT/BWD yet, for various IRL reasons. I WANT to see those before I got to firelands. I think there should be a "notsohard" mode, with the nerfs, the current version, then your hardmodes. So people can see the content and get through it, and others can go through and have a challenge, despite the content being old. I'd like to do nef/ony while they are tough, not faceroll through them
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05/25/2011 12:14 AMPosted by Pølka
The funny thing is that you seemed to think the difficulty was fine before 600k people quit.
Because Bashiok is clearly Ghostcrawler, who made those blog posts. Who knew?
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85 Goblin Mage
11910
05/25/2011 12:21 AMPosted by Aoir
The funny thing is that you seemed to think the difficulty was fine before 600k people quit.
Because Bashiok is clearly Ghostcrawler, who made those blog posts. Who knew?


Because I meant JUST him and not blizzard.
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85 Troll Priest
14570
I see 2 likely scenarios coming for firelands, either it is cleared extremely fast with the dungeon journal and having 7 bosses and everyone gets extremely bored of it fast, or it turns into pretty much the same thing as this tier but more extreme because of the Dungeon Journal. What I mean by that is the normals will probably be a hell of a lot easier with the dungeon journal and the casuals will go through them faster, but the heroics will be too hard for them and they'll be stuck with the same farmed 7 normals and QQ about the heroics.

And where was Bashiok's comment about the "Stair System" leading up to Cata? That's a pretty bold statement about the future of raiding to be just randomly thrown out...
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82 Gnome Rogue
710
Doing things the way Blizzard currently is doing things (drastically reducing difficulty so "everyone can experience content"), is promoting poor play. It does not matter that the content is old and those of us that have completed it have moved on to other, "greater" things. The effect this decision will have is two-fold.

First, players who struggled and overcame these encounters, have their victories cheapened. What exactly is the point of an "Achievement system" if the achievements become meaningless. Taking this attitude and apply it to real world scenarios. Somewhere around 1500 people have climbed to the top of Mt. Everest. That clearly isn't enough, lets reduce its height by 20%; make it easier so more people can experience the glory. (A bit ludicrous, I know, but the message is still valid.)

The second effect, is more drastic and much more permanent. By lowering the difficulty, Blizzard is telling the players that they don't need to improve. These are the same people that we group with every day in LFG. You wonder how it is possible that your group's hunter is putting out 4000 dps, or how your group's shaman holds threat better than the warrior, and still taking less damage than him? Here is your answer.

If Blizzard wants to have "everyone experience the content" then they need to put in another difficulty. An easy mode that allows these players to see the content, but is less rewarding. (No achievements, no epics, certainly no legendaries, and no special mounts)

I don't think it would be that hard either...

Magmaw - Remove the adds, and/or Mangle
Omnitron - Only one up at a time and no "barrier"
Maloriak - Remove adds
Atramedes - No Sonar Pulse and/or no Searing Flame
Chimaeron - No Poison Spit and/or Break
Nefarion - No adds in P1, P2 or P3.

Halfus Wyrmbreaker - Only one "dragon" up
Valiona & Theralion - No Blackouts and No Twilight Meteorite
Ascendent Counsil - Only fight one at time, Remove Waterlogged, and Thundershock/Quake
Cho'gall - Remove the add in P1. Only Worship 1.

Conclave of Wind - Remove Wind Chill, Nurture, and Wind Blast
Al'akir - Remove the Squall Lines from P1 and P2. Remove Lightning Rod from P3.


There. Easy mode, done and done.
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85 Goblin Mage
11910
Doing things the way Blizzard currently is doing things (drastically reducing difficulty so "everyone can experience content"), is promoting poor play. It does not matter that the content is old and those of us that have completed it have moved on to other, "greater" things. The effect this decision will have is two-fold.

First, players who struggled and overcame these encounters, have their victories cheapened. What exactly is the point of an "Achievement system" if the achievements become meaningless. Taking this attitude and apply it to real world scenarios. Somewhere around 1500 people have climbed to the top of Mt. Everest. That clearly isn't enough, lets reduce its height by 20%; make it easier so more people can experience the glory. (A bit ludicrous, I know, but the message is still valid.)

The second effect, is more drastic and much more permanent. By lowering the difficulty, Blizzard is telling the players that they don't need to improve. These are the same people that we group with every day in LFG. You wonder how it is possible that your group's hunter is putting out 4000 dps, or how your group's shaman holds threat better than the warrior, and still taking less damage than him? Here is your answer.

If Blizzard wants to have "everyone experience the content" then they need to put in another difficulty. An easy mode that allows these players to see the content, but is less rewarding. (No achievements, no epics, certainly no legendaries, and no special mounts)

I don't think it would be that hard either...

Magmaw - Remove the adds, and/or Mangle
Omnitron - Only one up at a time and no "barrier"
Maloriak - Remove adds
Atramedes - No Sonar Pulse and/or no Searing Flame
Chimaeron - No Poison Spit and/or Break
Nefarion - No adds in P1, P2 or P3.

Halfus Wyrmbreaker - Only one "dragon" up
Valiona & Theralion - No Blackouts and No Twilight Meteorite
Ascendent Counsil - Only fight one at time, Remove Waterlogged, and Thundershock/Quake
Cho'gall - Remove the add in P1. Only Worship 1.

Conclave of Wind - Remove Wind Chill, Nurture, and Wind Blast
Al'akir - Remove the Squall Lines from P1 and P2. Remove Lightning Rod from P3.


There. Easy mode, done and done.


Or. OR. ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. And this is just an ideaaaaaaaaaa. People get better. ZOMG! GASP! I know, quite shocking.
Edited by Pølka on 5/25/2011 12:50 AM PDT
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85 Goblin Warlock
11945
05/24/2011 06:25 PMPosted by Yourenotme
You mean the tier with only 7 bosses?


Yes the 7 bosses that are going to leave you crying from the spanking you will recieve.

yes I can see it now ...

Ragnaros: So mortals you have bested Major Domo Staghelm, HAHHAHAHA

BEHOLD!!!

MY TRUE SECOND IN COMMAND

this little fire imp comes walking out

Players notice it's called Major Domo Bashiok.

Players all rage quit WoW due to the difficulty.



ROFL!!! It would be neat if that actually happen. The Bashiok part of course lol
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80 Human Mage
17390
Bashiok, I'm confused. In one of your responses, you've stated that these changes are "only being applied to normals", but most the blue posts seem to indicate they're being applied to both difficulties. I mean yeah, some posts SPECIFICALLY mention bosses that are "Normal", like Ascendent Council.
On others, it appears a bit more ambiguous.

So lets take the Cho'gall changes for instance:

Cho’gall
Health, melee damage, Health of Corrupting Adherent, Depravity damage, Corrupting Crash damage, Flaming Destruction damage, and Unleashed Shadows damage has all been reduced by 20%.
Corrupting Crash and Depravity
Halved the amount of Corruption they give to 5 from 10.
Corrupted Bite effect caused by Blood of the Old God reduced.
Damage Taken from Corruption of the Old God per Corrupted Blood has been reduced from 3% per stack to 2% per stack.
Debilitating Beam damage has been reduced by 20% to 6,400.
The duration of Twisted Devotion has been reduced by 25%.


Will these only be applied to normal Cho'gall or heroic Cho'gall?

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05/25/2011 01:14 AMPosted by Shehnaz
Will these only be applied to normal Cho'gall or heroic Cho'gall?
As both Bashiok and Nethaera have said several times now, the nerfs are ONLY to normal.


05/24/2011 04:19 PMPosted by Nethaera
Just to clarify for those that have been asking, these changes only apply to Normal mode and not Heroic.



http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2580598159?page=15#285 source.
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