Cross-Server Auction House

77 Troll Druid
4180
A few days ago, I made this troll druid on a friend's server. Many people I know play here, and more are transferring. I was happy to be with my friends and started leveling. Once I got to about 60, I started to level my professions. However, I ran into a major problem.

The economy on Darkspear is horrible.

Specifically speaking, there is a major lack of raw materials on the Auction House. I thought since it was a high population server, the economy would be good and the Auction House would be well supplied. This is not the case. There are rarely any raw materials such as Silverleaf or Copper Ore. The materials that are listed are grossly overpriced and I refuse to buy them.

This isn't a problem limited to Darkspear alone. Many other servers, especially low population servers, have very limited economies mainly because of the lack of a population.

There are two solutions to this problem.

1. Make all Auction Houses cross-faction. This would mean removing the 15% cut in Goblin Cartel Cities and also making the Auction Houses in capital cities on both sides cross-faction. Currently, cross-faction Auctions are used for arbitrage and not as a means of selling goods to consumers. This would potentially double the market of a server and would be easy to implement.

2. Make Auction Houses cross-server. Ideally, they would be divided into battlegroups, similar to Battlegrounds and the Looking For Dungeon system. This would increase the size of the market drastically, bringing in both more consumers and "companies," if you will. Not only would there be many more goods, prices would go down due to more competition and producers of goods would see more profit from increased demand for their goods. They would also be able to expand, as many merchants are limited by their server's lack of materials. While it would be slightly harder to implement, the infrastucture is in place as seen through Battlegrounds and the Looking For Dungeon system.

Hopefully, these ideas come to light and help make World of Warcraft a better place to do business in.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7140
1) No.. Goes against the Warcraft aspect. Why would the Horde want to trade with the Alliance and vice versa. I feel it will also destroy the economy of the server.

2) No. The LFD already destroyed a lot of the community aspect of servers where people worked together to accomplish instances. Now you just jump in a queue. This would destroy the rest of the community aspect of the game. We'd all be just ants trudging our way across a sugar field.
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85 Human Death Knight
9150
definatly do not want to see any cross server auctioning however i would like to see better access to cross faction.

not remove or reduce the fee, simply put one in major cities to make it viable to actually sell things cross server since as you said no one uses it to sell cross faction only to move things.
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77 Troll Druid
4180
Why would the Horde want to trade with the Alliance and vice versa. I feel it will also destroy the economy of the server.


You already can trade cross-faction in Goblin areas. The lore isn't destroyed. Also you fail to mention to explain why the economies would be destroyed. Simply opening up markets would not destroy an economy. Rather it would help it, as I explained above.

The LFD already destroyed a lot of the community aspect of servers where people worked together to accomplish instances. Now you just jump in a queue. This would destroy the rest of the community aspect of the game.


While LFD may have hurt the community, that doesn't mean this will. How often do you talk to the guy who posted ten stacks of netherweave cloth? The reason why LFD hurt the community was that it took dungeons, a social experience, and put people from different servers there. You may talk to the people in your dungeon, but you don't talk to the people on the auction house. Just because it's cross server doesn't mean it would hurt the community.

not remove or reduce the fee, simply put one in major cities to make it viable to actually sell things cross server since as you said no one uses it to sell cross faction only to move things.
The reason why I said no one uses it is that the fee is too high. Neutral Auction Houses take a 15% cut as opposed to a 5% cut in capital cities. Even if you put a neutral auctioneer in capital cities, people still wouldn't use it because of the 15% cut.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14575
06/02/2011 05:06 PMPosted by Horajio
You already can trade cross-faction in Goblin areas. The lore isn't destroyed. Also you fail to mention to explain why the economies would be destroyed. Simply opening up markets would not destroy an economy. Rather it would help it, as I explained above.

The Goblin Auction Houses have a high service fee attached too. And it wouldn't help, not really. At best it would help one side while hurting the other.

06/02/2011 05:06 PMPosted by Horajio
The reason why I said no one uses it is that the fee is too high. Neutral Auction Houses take a 15% cut as opposed to a 5% cut in capital cities. Even if you put a neutral auctioneer in capital cities, people still wouldn't use it because of the 15% cut.

And the reason for the increased service fee is because Blizzard doesn't want Alliance and Horde to have an easy time transferring goods.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7140
06/02/2011 05:06 PMPosted by Horajio
You already can trade cross-faction in Goblin areas. The lore isn't destroyed. Also you fail to mention to explain why the economies would be destroyed. Simply opening up markets would not destroy an economy. Rather it would help it, as I explained above.


I doubt it. It will drive trade good prices down to the barest minimum at the start. You'd be lucky to make listing fees. If you've been on a decently populated server, you should know what the undercutting is like. This will just accelerate the problem. It would also let the gold farmers and bots ran rampant through every server instead of having to maintain gold creation and characters on every server they could just be on one server and sell everywhere. If you really think that ore selling for 1-10 gold per stack is helping then yeah, this will help the economy. I'd prefer that decent prices were available across the spectrum of trade goods and products. Somewhere where a new player can make some gold and afford the large expensive items. You can't do that easily on quest rewards.


While LFD may have hurt the community, that doesn't mean this will. How often do you talk to the guy who posted ten stacks of netherweave cloth? The reason why LFD hurt the community was that it took dungeons, a social experience, and put people from different servers there. You may talk to the people in your dungeon, but you don't talk to the people on the auction house. Just because it's cross server doesn't mean it would hurt the community.

Actually, I know who the decent sellers are on my server and am willing to pay a little more to support them. I know who drives the undercuts, who will stab you in the back to get a sale, who is likely to ninja goods if they go on a raid with you. I don't have to support these people. Over time, they get discouraged and leave the market or move on to other hunting grounds. Yeah, they can pay to change their names but even if that happens you can spot their trends and habits. With millions of sellers, this would be impossible. You can't build up a community through the marketplace, know who to haggle with, who can supply you cheaper goods if you work with them on something else, etc.

Though I guess when it is better to sell my cut gems to the vendor than list them because of the rapid decrease in prices, it really won't matter.
Edited by Sorelai on 6/2/2011 6:00 PM PDT
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77 Troll Druid
4180
Apparently Sorelai has not taken an economics class nor read the original post. You say that prices will go down because of an increase of supply. However, you completely fail to think about this and forget that there would be a huge increase in consumers as well. Yes, there would be undercutting, but people would be buying more materials so it wouldn't matter. If the price of materials dropped that low, then it would not make economic sense to list them. Therefore, people would stop listing them. Supply would go down, creating a shortage, therefore driving the prices back up. Also, what new character needs to buy these large and expensive items, anyway? The Auction House isn't some charity where it gives gold to new players, it's a marketplace where people trade goods. I don't care if it's a new player or a level 85 raider selling, if I want 20x[Silverleaf], I'm going to buy it for the cheapest amount. They can still make money if they sell their items. Overall, what you're trying to suggest is that prices would drop dramatically due to increased competition, but you fail to understand that making auction houses cross-server would increase demand for materials greatly, therefore equalizing prices. And yes, while you might occasionally recognize one name on the Auction House doesn't mean that the Auction House is the cornerstone of the community today. If the community is already as damaged as you say it is, then why would it matter if we lose one tiny little piece more? It's like worrying about your $5 bill is safe or not when you left it inside of your burning house.

Rankin, how would trade between the Horde and Alliance hurt one side while helping another? Why would anyone trade if it was hurting them? Capitalism (both in real life and in WoW) is based on the idea that trade is mutually beneficial for both parties involved. It doesn't hurt the U.S. to trade with China, why would it hurt the Horde to trade with the Alliance? Also, you mention that it is the way it is because Blizzard intended to be that way. That is completely moronic. There's a reason we are playing WoW Patch 4.1 instead of 1.0, and that is because Blizzard is not always right. Things change in the World of Warcraft a lot of the time, and this is one of those things.

Lastly, who cares about gold sellers? You all say that they could use it to transfer gold. So what? What would that do? They are already on every single server in the game. If I wanted to buy gold today, I could easily do so. People are not going to want to buy more gold if Auction Houses suddenly became cross-server. They wouldn't get more money nor should that be a deciding factor in this discussion.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7140
I simply don't think the increase in demand will balance things out. I believe that gold farmers and bots will invade low population realms and their supply will outweigh any demands benefits. Since they will be on low population realms, their chances of being reported will be lower and they will be able to run 24 hours a day without hindrance.
Edited by Sorelai on 6/2/2011 7:56 PM PDT
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77 Troll Druid
4180
I simply don't think the increase in demand will balance things out.


Well, then you're simply wrong. If you're just going to say one sentence statements without warrants, you might as well not speak at all. We get that's what you think, but you're wrong and can't find anything to back you up.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14575
06/02/2011 06:58 PMPosted by Horajio
Rankin, how would trade between the Horde and Alliance hurt one side while helping another? Why would anyone trade if it was hurting them? Capitalism (both in real life and in WoW) is based on the idea that trade is mutually beneficial for both parties involved.

Because one side nearly always has a higher population than the other. Real life has things like tariffs and embargoes to alter the flow of trade, there would be no such protections built into the AH.

06/02/2011 06:58 PMPosted by Horajio
It doesn't hurt the U.S. to trade with China, why would it hurt the Horde to trade with the Alliance?

The US isn't at war with China.

06/02/2011 06:58 PMPosted by Horajio
Also, you mention that it is the way it is because Blizzard intended to be that way. That is completely moronic. There's a reason we are playing WoW Patch 4.1 instead of 1.0, and that is because Blizzard is not always right. Things change in the World of Warcraft a lot of the time, and this is one of those things.

It's not moronic just because you don't like it. Trade between the Horde and the Alliance has been the same since beta. It's one of the few things that hasn't changed in seven years. Try to imagine why.
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90 Human Paladin
aus
18475
The issue is not the lack of population, you said yourself that darkspear was high pop.

This issue is their are many more 85's and alts of 85's willing to blow a few gold or a few hundred gold then their are genuine newbies willing to sell.

The larger the AH population they more undercutting and the more rewarded are those who use add ons to assist them.

So your newbie walks up to he AH and sells his puts up his stack of peacebloom for 2g. On another server someone hits their scan 10 seconds later, buys and reposts for 20g because he knows 85's will pay that much.

The more manipulation of the AH their is the higher prices are, more people just makes it harder and harder to find that bargain.
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77 Troll Druid
4180
Have you ever taken an economics class? Listen up, because Assistant Professor Horajio is going to give you a lesson.

Let's say there's two people on an island. One is really good at purifying water, and the other is really good at hunting the pigs on the island. They could work separately, one having good water and no food while the other will have delicious meat but contaminated water. On the other hand, the guy with the water could trade with the guy with the meat. He would exchange meat for water, and both parties would have water and meat. This is an example of trading, and shows that trading is beneficial for both parties.

Now, lets say the meat guy wanted an unfair amount of water for his meat. Like, the water guy would give ALL of his water for a bite of meat. The guy selling water can refuse this deal and keep his water. When a trade comes up that is bad for one side, they can refuse. That is the beauty of capitalism.

That is a brief explanation of why trading is good.

Now, you talk about trade embargoes helping smaller population countries.

This is the dumbest thing I have heard all day.

An embargo is a RESTRICTION on trade. It is BAD FOR TRADE. We already established that trade is bad.

Here's an example of two countries trading.

Let's say that Mexico and Brazil want to trade. In one year, Mexico can produce either 150 units of coffee or 75 units of broccoli. In one year, Brazil can produce 200 units of either coffee or broccoli, but not both. In this case, Mexico is clearly behind in both coffee and broccoli. However, what can happen is that Mexico produces 150 units of coffee and Brazil makes 200 units of broccoli. They then trade and get more than they could've gotten individually. Normally, without trade, Mexico would have to give up 2 units of coffee for 1 unit of broccoli. As long as Mexico trades less than 2 units of coffee for 1 unit of broccoli, they are getting more broccoli than they could've made by themselves. Likewise, Brazil has to give up one unit of broccoli to get one unit of coffee. If they trade at a rate that is above 1 unit of broccoli for coffee, they will get more broccoli and coffee than if they did not trade. Therefore, any rate of exchange between 1 and 2 of coffee to broccoli will benefit both countries, since they get more materials than they could've made by themselves.

Keep in mind, an embargo would STOP THIS. They would not be able to trade and get more resources. Countries with smaller populations who trade with larger countries benefit from trade because trade is inherently good, not because of embargoes like you state.

Also, I hate to burst your bubble, but the Horde and Alliance aren't actually at war. Sure, that's what people say, but it's not true. No one permanently dies from this war. If you die from a person of the opposite faction, then you come back to life in 30 seconds. No territory is won or lost. No matter how many times you kill Garrosh or Sylvanas, Orgrimmar and Undercity will always be Horde cities. The "war" between Alliance and Horde isn't a war so much as it is a scrimmage between members of the same team. There's nothing at stake in this "war," so we might as well trade to better ourselves off.

Lastly, shut up about it never changing. Trolls could never be druids or warlocks before Cata. Horde could never be paladins before TBC. Heck, the entire continents of Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor had never been changed since beta in seven years before Cataclysm. Saying that it's been that way is a dumb argument. People said the same thing to abolitionists in the civil war about slavery. Trust me, it's not a sound argument.
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77 Troll Druid
4180
The issue is not the lack of population, you said yourself that darkspear was high pop.

This issue is their are many more 85's and alts of 85's willing to blow a few gold or a few hundred gold then their are genuine newbies willing to sell.

The larger the AH population they more undercutting and the more rewarded are those who use add ons to assist them.

So your newbie walks up to he AH and sells his puts up his stack of peacebloom for 2g. On another server someone hits their scan 10 seconds later, buys and reposts for 20g because he knows 85's will pay that much.

The more manipulation of the AH their is the higher prices are, more people just makes it harder and harder to find that bargain.


No, this is the exact problem that would be fixed.

Let's say on my server, there's one person posting low level herbs, and one higher level buying and reposting. If that level 85 buys all of the herbs, I can't do anything because I don't want to spend that price. However, if there re now 10 people posting low level herbs, now there is more supply than before. The problem wasn't the 85 posting for higher, the problem was that there was a shortage in the first place. By introducing more producers of these raw materials into the market, prices go down because of competition. If the 85s post too high now, they won't get bought and prices will go down.

Also, my original problem was that there were NO HERBS WHATSOEVER, not that they were too expensive.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
10965
I'd love to see a cross server AH. Niche markets would be easier filled, it might be easier for rare item collectors to spot a rare recipe since often one server has a few of them but another server hasn't seen one in years. I'd sell more items, people could buy more items, prices would be lower for new players and profits would be higher for volume sellers. I'd be very happy.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14575
Now, you talk about trade embargoes helping smaller population countries.

This is the dumbest thing I have heard all day.

That's because that's not what I said. You're looking for an argument so hard that you're willing to make one up just to keep going.

06/02/2011 09:12 PMPosted by Horajio
Also, I hate to burst your bubble, but the Horde and Alliance aren't actually at war. Sure, that's what people say, but it's not true. No one permanently dies from this war.

The players being able to resurrect is completely and totally irrelevant. That's just gameplay mechanics. The story line is what matters. And if Azeroth had a doomsday clock, it would be set half a second from midnight.

06/02/2011 09:12 PMPosted by Horajio
No matter how many times you kill Garrosh or Sylvanas, Orgrimmar and Undercity will always be Horde cities. The "war" between Alliance and Horde isn't a war so much as it is a scrimmage between members of the same team. There's nothing at stake in this "war," so we might as well trade to better ourselves off.

Go tell the citizens of South Shore that they can just "respawn". Go tell the citizens of Camp Taurajo that they can just find their corpses and be back in the game.

You're deliberately missing the point here.

06/02/2011 09:12 PMPosted by Horajio
Lastly, shut up about it never changing.

How about you stop getting so angry that it might not change.

06/02/2011 09:12 PMPosted by Horajio
Trolls could never be druids or warlocks before Cata. Horde could never be paladins before TBC. Heck, the entire continents of Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor had never been changed since beta in seven years before Cataclysm. Saying that it's been that way is a dumb argument.

And despite all those changes, the Horde and Alliance still can't trade freely. Saying that other things have changed is the justification for changing something else is a bad argument.

06/02/2011 09:12 PMPosted by Horajio
People said the same thing to abolitionists in the civil war about slavery.

And we're done here. Pack up your bags people, the OP is not going to listen to any arguments. He's just going to make up some amazing leaps of logical fallacy to keep arguing.
Edited by Rankin on 6/3/2011 4:09 AM PDT
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85 Draenei Priest
4130
Personally, even though I do like the idea of a cross server auction house, I would not support it. IF the game had been based around such a thing at the start then yes, it would be fine, it would basically become like Runescape's market (Everything can be sold for whatever but it is 90% of the time a stable price.) they would have to rework a lot of things to achieve this, drop rates to keep higher level items rarer and lower level items more common is an example of such.

Then they would probably have to make it harder to level up professions to make sure that certain items will always be wanted.

In the end it would be a lot of work for them and probably not worth it at all in the end.

The only real part about the current system that I dislike is that items from older expansions are actually worth more than current expansion items usually which I personally do not believe is a good thing. Why should netherweave be worth more than embersilk? Why should fel iron be worth more than elementium or for that matter obsidium?

Anyways, I don't support the idea, maybe cross faction but not cross server. (They'd have to lower the cross faction fee to like 10% instead of 15%)
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6525
Old known suggestion.

Dead issue.

They are not going to do it, because server economies are specific to that server.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7875
I would have to say No as well. The economies on many servers are crashed, not to mention plagued with AH campers. Don't want that spreading to everyone.

Also, I think we have different definitions of a bad economy. If basic supplies are so scarce/expensive, then go farm them and rake in the gold. A true bad economy server is where almost everything except the most rarest of items have almost no value because of severe oversupply. Sure things are cheap, but the economy works both ways - you are also not going to make any money, either.
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1 Worgen Priest
0
Old known suggestion.

Dead issue.

They are not going to do it, because server economies are specific to that server.


this.

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90 Night Elf Hunter
0
Old known suggestion.

Dead issue.

They are not going to do it, because server economies are specific to that server.


Never say never, but it does seem highly unlikely. Probably just after the appearance tab, and right before paid class changes.
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