How exactly do you "master" a Frost DK?

85 Draenei Death Knight
8205
I've been around for awhile and I've played all the specs fair amounts recently, so I came back to Frost to see what was up with the changes. Ignoring DoT management, since all specs have it, and rotations, since the size of those don't really matter, I see one thing that could be a mechanic we have to learn to use correctly and that's Killing Machine. So I set out to master Killing Machine, using it on Obliterates to do more damage with the crits.

However, I ran into two problems as I continued to play the spec.

1) No matter what I do, there always seems to be Killing Machine procs that cannot be predicted and will be wasted on Frost Strikes or proc right after I used my last Obliterate. I've found no real way around this, just that you can't necessarily "master" using Killing Machines on Obliterates because everyone would "waste" some on Frost Strikes whenever they fight.

2) When you focus on using Obliterate on as many Killing Machine's as you can, I've noticed, because of our RP generation as Frost, that my RP shoots through the roof and stays caped way too often. It's because Killing Machine procs so much that I'm using Obliterate after Obliterate and wasting 2, even 3, full bars of RP because I'm at max for such a long time.

As far as I can tell it's just a not-so-great fire mage mechanic (seeing as how critting is one of their big things) that really cannot be mastered because you either CAN'T use it right and/or you waste a crap ton of your RP.



My question: Why is Killing Machine such an interesting/challenging mechanic? Is there something I'm missing? Please feel free to elaborate on this. I'm trying to figure out why people enjoy playing the spec, and the only real reason I can personally see is the big numbers/burst DPS.
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85 Gnome Death Knight
3300
Well as for the killing machine proc, id have asume it was because blizz set out intended to make frost DK's be in frost presence, but while we are in unholy presence our spells are able to be used more often, so when we sit there spamming frost strike and killing machine procs we accidently use it, if we were in frost pres, then it would proc and we would have time to use it with obliterate, if my poor grammar makes any sense.
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85 Draenei Death Knight
8205
I understand what you're saying, yes, but the problem with that is I've been testing in both presences, and while it's a BIGGER problem in Unholy Presence, I still run into the proc issue in Frost Presence as well as RP wasting.

I assume it's because it's based on auto-attacks, which aren't connected to ability cool downs, so it's still possible for Killing Machine to proc after an Obliterate is used (meaning you missed it) or while you're hitting Frost Strike, since it can proc at any given point.
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87 Worgen Death Knight
6365
My impression was that, originally, frost wasn't intended to have such a massive overflow of runic power, and was in fact supposed to be starved a little for RP, thus the bonus to RP generation in frost presence. Obviously, things didn't work out that way.
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85 Draenei Death Knight
8205
Well that would make sense, yes, but that's partly why I asked this question. It's not the nerfs I'm talking about here, I'm thinking of the spec as a whole.

Is it just broken and terribly put together? Or is there something I'm missing here that makes it actually, not only interesting, but...sensible, I guess.
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1 Goblin Warrior
0
Originally the idea was to try and make sure that your obliterates went to KM, and the only real way to do it was to slow down your attacks. Don't just spam your abilities but try and focus on keeping it at a level where you could react to KM procs.

You would of course still loose KM to Frost Strikes, just unavoidable overall but you did what you could.

Between the FS buffs and the Obliterate nerf, I really wouldn't worry to much about it now, if you have your runes up and KM comes up, go ahead and use obliterate, otherwise don't worry about it, if you try and hold on at all you may loose a KM proc and, so just use whatever is available to KM with trying to give it to Obliterate if the runes are up.

If the Annihilation nerf goes through then the roles will probably reverse, especially with enough mastery.

The devs have very much oversimplified Frost DPS sad to say.
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85 Tauren Death Knight
4905
It's just poorly put together when combined with the rune changes that came with cata, and the unholy pres build's that rose to dominance encouraging FS button mashing.

A swing timer addon can assist with KM/FS timing, but other than that it's just luck of the proc.
Edited by Avengingbeef on 5/29/2011 6:23 AM PDT
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85 Draenei Death Knight
8205
Well as long as I'm not missing some "hidden secret" to the fun in the spec. I didn't want to believe it was oversimplified and driven by crazy numbers, but if that's what it is, guess I'm going back to Unholy. Unfortunate too, I like to Dual Wield. Looks cool visually.
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85 Tauren Death Knight
4905
there is still some fun to be had with the nuances of weaving in fs/rime procs to fish for that km and balance rp generation.

Most unholy rerolls give it the thumbs up for intrest factor however also find your frustration as well, it is a spec where some days you just have to "roll with the rng".
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1 Draenei Paladin
0
@OP

I understand your frustration, recently I switched to Frost as well and was experiencing the same thing as you.

I tried to save KM procs to use with Obliterate, and at times (more often than not) they proc just as I hit Frost Strike, and at other times, I would be waiting 3-5 seconds for my runes to use Obliterate with KM, while having my RP capped the entire time, doing nothing but auto attack and occasionally using HB on Rime procs.

After abit, I decided not to care about saving KM for Obliterate (unless the Runes are up or is going to come up within 2 seconds), as Grymix said, with the recent nerf to Obliterate and the Annihilation Nerf incomming for 4.2, don't worry about it too much, cause at the moment the only difference in damage between my KM Froststrike and KM Obliterate is like 1-2k.
Edited by Availon on 5/29/2011 10:56 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6420
Frost is a bit broken atm as your KM is almost 100% RNG. If you don't get a KM proc enough, your dps will suck :/. GO GO STACK HASTE.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3110
You will do more damage just spamming OB and FS as fast as you can, instead of paying attention to procs.
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85 Tauren Death Knight
4905
05/29/2011 12:20 PMPosted by Karlov
You will do more damage just spamming OB and FS as fast as you can, instead of paying attention to procs.


no you wont...........
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