Ask The Devs #9 - Tanking (Answers)

71 Gnome Warrior
14480
06/08/2011 03:45 PMPosted by Kaivax
And while it isn't possible to satisfy every individual, every individual does have a say. That's a valuable thing.

I'm sorry but this Q&A was pointless. Some of the questions asked were just stupid and should have been weeded out no matter how many upvotes they got.

Taunts not missing? Come on - what a waste of a question.
The leg patch? Another complete waste.

If this is the best the community can come up with then the community sux and my opinion of them is beyond anything I can post on this forum and maintain my posting privileges.

I'm seriously /facedesking at this Q&A. Just .. ugh!
85 Worgen Death Knight
3995
Face meet my palm.

This is just embarrassing from Blizz. Whoever selected these questions, what were you thinking? And who ever just answered them without asking for some changes took the easy way out and should not be doing any sort of community work. It makes no sense to ignore the player base in this way during a time where there is already a tank shortage in the game.

Its simple math, Tanks have it bad as it is, to them make them unintuitive and unfun to play and then refuse to answer when called on it is ridiculous and baffling.

This needs to be redone or have someone give real answers, not 10 word answers, to the real questions that fill the pages and pages of this forum.
100 Troll Warrior
15035
Heres a challenge why don't the more intelligent of the community start another thread "the real tank Q&A", at the very least I am sure they would look at it even if they don't post.

What I see is questsions were asked and answered.

Some of the community says there were stupid questions

Community manager says "well you guys asked them"


That's not exactly how it is though. Unless every question asked was as dumb as the taunts missiing question one was. I think the issue is there were a lot of meaningful questions that would of given this Q&A some credability and something worth reading.

Instead we got stupid questions & stupid answers. The few good question that were asked they dropped the ball with and gave a horrible response.

Some questions they didnt even answer correctly.


They said they answered the popular questions not the ones they considered valid. I.E they are asserting the community came up with dumb questions as they were the ones "voted up". My challenge was lets come up with some better questions that are not based on popularity.

Instead of just posting questsions that get voted up or down we could see if there is a consensus on what our problems are or not let the theorycrafters run wild as it were.
71 Gnome Warrior
14480
06/08/2011 04:32 PMPosted by Duchene
I'm at a point though where even if me, you and 20 other people asked a real important valid question it would only get pushed out the door for some idiotic question similiar to the taunts missing question instead.

And hence why this sort of decision making process fails. Get lots of idiots upvoting stupid questions and good serious ones drop out the back door.

Seriously the more I think about this Q&A the angrier I am at the questions and quality of the answers provided.

Time for me to walk away from the Forums/PC for a while.
Edited by Kabouters on 6/8/2011 4:35 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Death Knight
3390
Posted by Kaivax
A: We don’t currently balance around the assumption that tanks cap hit or expertise. We’re definitely looking at ways to make reliably hitting more attractive to tanks in the future, though. Currently, missing is just a compound to the issue discussed in Question #1. Getting tanks to care about threat stats, not for the threat benefit (but for a mitigation benefit), is one potential direction. For example, DKs want to make sure their Death Strikes hit because of the mitigation benefit. Druids care about crit because of Savage Defense. We speculated at one point that we could make Shield Block (and now Holy Shield) require a successful hit to do their jobs. We’re not sure we will go that direction, but it’s one idea. We would of course compensate tanks for any potential loss of predictable mitigation.


The issue isn't that hit/exp aren't attractive to tanks. They're very attractive. We love having those stats.

The problem is that we can't gear for hit and expertise in any way without gimping our survivability.

I don't think there isn't a tank alive that wouldn't love to explore their threat stats more. The fact is gear = less dying. Period. If our stats were split in such a way that, say, we could freely pick within "survival" and "threat" rating pools without sacrificing one for the other you'd see a lot more tanks interested in the notion.

Just adding a forced requirement to a stat we can't stack is just going to further frustrate us.


Don't forget the fact that they said "we don't balance tanks around being hit or expertise capped" while also saying that two classes of tank use it to help survivability while the block tanks don't need it at all.

So does that mean that the Devs balance DK's and Druids around our mastery abilities missing or getting dodged?
24 Night Elf Hunter
0
06/08/2011 09:26 AMPosted by Kaivax
Have you considered giving druid tanks an additional tool to pull casters at range? It’s the only tank class that doesn’t have a talent or spell to help in those situations.


Were they going to answer this part of the question, or ignore it for another year or five?
58 Gnome Death Knight
0
Posted by Kaivax
A: We don’t currently balance around the assumption that tanks cap hit or expertise. We’re definitely looking at ways to make reliably hitting more attractive to tanks in the future, though. Currently, missing is just a compound to the issue discussed in Question #1. Getting tanks to care about threat stats, not for the threat benefit (but for a mitigation benefit), is one potential direction. For example, DKs want to make sure their Death Strikes hit because of the mitigation benefit. Druids care about crit because of Savage Defense. We speculated at one point that we could make Shield Block (and now Holy Shield) require a successful hit to do their jobs. We’re not sure we will go that direction, but it’s one idea. We would of course compensate tanks for any potential loss of predictable mitigation.


The issue isn't that hit/exp aren't attractive to tanks. They're very attractive. We love having those stats.

The problem is that we can't gear for hit and expertise in any way without gimping our survivability.

I don't think there isn't a tank alive that wouldn't love to explore their threat stats more. The fact is gear = less dying. Period. If our stats were split in such a way that, say, we could freely pick within "survival" and "threat" rating pools without sacrificing one for the other you'd see a lot more tanks interested in the notion.

Just adding a forced requirement to a stat we can't stack is just going to further frustrate us.


Don't forget the fact that they said "we don't balance tanks around being hit or expertise capped" while also saying that two classes of tank use it to help survivability while the block tanks don't need it at all.

So does that mean that the Devs balance DK's and Druids around our mastery abilities missing or getting dodged?

Where do you think the 6-7 DS/min comes from? ;-(
85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
This is as good a place as any to be reminded that the devs do not choose the questions answered. We've done nine rounds of these, and used the same method to gather and compile the questions every time.

In each region, a community manager locks their local questions thread, sorts the replies (by upvotes), and then copies out the questions that got the most upvotes (along with the names of the questioners). I then take all of the different lists of questions from each region and combine them. Since our goal is to get as many questions answered as possible, when I'm compiling the final list of questions for the devs, I try to find where the #7 most upvoted question from North America is very similar to the #1 question from Russia and nearly identical to the #8 question from Taiwan. There are several of those every round, and they become highly valuable questions in a list of already-highly-valuable questions.

I also make sure that the list of questions going to the devs at least has numerous questions from each region. Because some questions can be combined, I often get to send the devs at least the top 3-5 questions from every region, and often the top 6-9 questions from most regions. In this round, that process resulted in 16 questions for the devs, but comprised 26 of the highest-voted questions across all the regions.

The devs answered all 16 questions that they were sent.

Would I have liked to send the devs 20 questions? Perhaps 120 questions? Of course. But I have to pick a reasonable place to end the list when I compile it. That cut-off usually presents itself, and as the compilation grows to 11, then 12, then 13 questions, there is a big dropoff in upvotes. With most rounds of Ask the Devs, that happens at around 12 combined questions. This round, it was 16 questions.

I rather like this process, because ultimately, the decisions that really matter (what to ask, how to ask it, how important it is) are left to the players upfront. The single most upvoted question in the world this round was this one:

Will we see a tanking Legendary sometime soon?


And while it isn't possible to satisfy every individual, every individual does have a say. That's a valuable thing.


Could you please SCREEN the Q&A in the future.

This is our ONE chance at getting input from the developers now that GC does not post in the role forums anymore. Seeing "special" questions that could easily be answered by Community or by going over the patch notes like the taunts missing question is infuriating.

Another angry tank put up a "Will i do more dps if i equip a weapon" in the DPS Q&A and its already highly rated. DPS would be upset if that got answered over a good question just as we are upset over the taunt question. Highly rated or not those question should not be allowed into these threads.
85 Worgen Druid
3430
did anybody from the dev team bother to go over this before it was posted? i really can't believe that you looked at the answers to these questions (and a lot of the questions themselves) and thought, "yeah that's some good communication with our target audience right there."


why even bother to have these q&a threads if they're just going to be as awful as this?
85 Draenei Death Knight
8315
06/08/2011 03:45 PMPosted by Kaivax
And while it isn't possible to satisfy every individual, every individual does have a say. That's a valuable thing.


Kaivax,

Although I am not satisfied with the questions chosen for the tanking questions this time around, I do very much appreciate you coming in and communicating with the players over their concerns. I hope community managers and developers will both start doing this more.

The players may not agree with the CMs or the Devs, but it sure feels better to have some form of dialogue going between the Blizzard and the community. Nothing sucks more than having a wall of silence surrounding issues that the player base cares about.
85 Human Death Knight
12405
06/08/2011 04:41 PMPosted by Oltan
Nothing sucks more than having a wall of silence surrounding issues that the player base cares about.


Like those taunts missing!
85 Undead Warrior
2210
Kaivax,

Although I am not satisfied with the questions chosen for the tanking questions this time around, I do very much appreciate you coming in and communicating with the players over their concerns. I hope community managers and developers will both start doing this more.

The players may not agree with the CMs or the Devs, but it sure feels better to have some form of dialogue going between the Blizzard and the community. Nothing sucks more than having a wall of silence surrounding issues that the player base cares about.



I am of the same mind, thank you for the response Kaivax.
85 Worgen Druid
3430
did anybody from the dev team bother to go over this before it was posted? i really can't believe that you looked at the answers to these questions (and a lot of the questions themselves) and thought, "yeah that's some good communication with our target audience right there."


why even bother to have these q&a threads if they're just going to be as awful as this?



role specific q&a sessions should stay on their respective role forums, and all the upvotes from idiots who can't read patch notes or haven't tanked in a year and a half and only care about when they can get their fancy orange weapon that nobody will try to steal from them should be ignored.
85 Human Warrior
11810
Very very very disapointing Q&A, no serious questions got serious answers, you refuse to agree that bear are not the "worst" tanks when they really are, not only survival wise but utility wise... out of form they have less utility than the 3 other classes that are able to use utility while tanking.

I was excited about a Tanking Q&A, but I feel like terrible questions got picked just to come back and turn at "We think Vengeance is fine".

Why no real talk about threat, the future of challenges for tanks and their healers, are we going to get back to H Lich King 2 shots? What about parry haste?

I understand how "risky" it is to go and talk about class balance and how they relate with the other tanks, but what do we get here? One complaining about Bear being weak, the other about DKs, and both get misleading answers.

The guy saying that Burning Crusade required 5 tanks per 25 man...? Seriously.

/mad

The comments on MMO-champion pretty summed up my thoughts on this Q&A, this is laughable.
85 Tauren Death Knight
7370
In each region, a community manager locks their local questions thread, sorts the replies (by upvotes), and then copies out the questions that got the most upvotes (along with the names of the questioners). I then take all of the different lists of questions from each region and combine them. Since our goal is to get as many questions answered as possible, when I'm compiling the final list of questions for the devs, I try to find where the #7 most upvoted question from North America is very similar to the #1 question from Russia and nearly identical to the #8 question from Taiwan. There are several of those every round, and they become highly valuable questions in a list of already-highly-valuable questions.


So in other words your saying that in other regions "why do my taunts miss?" Was a very asked for question. Somehow I don't think that people in other regions were that misinformed about a patch done almost year ago. In fact this question should never have been talked about because taunts have been unable to miss so long. Someone would literally have to be out of touch with the game for almost a year.

I simply can't believe that.
100 Gnome Mage
8200
The easy solution would to make every player successfully pass a tanking/dps/healing (yes all three) test before they can que for any random of any level. This would give everyone a good understanding of all the different roles and require respect of the roles they don't want to play permanently. This would never work properly but at least we would all know whats expected of the other players in a group situation and immature players would be more likely to quest or PVP all day long instead of making randoms hell for everyone else.

I started out as a warrior tank in vanilla and will now only tank random heroes when I have a guild heal at my back.
Edited by Romoto on 6/8/2011 4:55 PM PDT
85 Human Paladin
6250

The players may not agree with the CMs or the Devs, but it sure feels better to have some form of dialogue going between the Blizzard and the community. Nothing sucks more than having a wall of silence surrounding issues that the player base cares about.


Dialogue ??? Well most of the "good question" was answered just like politician do .. they answer without "actually" answering the question ... (Like mastery for plate)

Dialogue ??? Well like taunt missing and 5 tank in 25 man raid ??? Question that I NEVER SAW SINCE 4.0 in the tank forum ???

You are right you can call that Dialogue ... when I talk to myself ... I guess I'm dialoguing too right ?
Edited by Earthquakes on 6/8/2011 4:51 PM PDT
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]