Ask The Devs #9 - Tanking (Answers)

86 Goblin Hunter
Syk
7950
... I'm not saying I don't like a challenge, but something feels inherently wrong when the first 10 seconds of a fight are the most stressful.


This is so, SO true. It is also why I have not even *logged* my warrior tank since Cataclysm hit. I wanted to get my DPS to max level first, and then when I saw what tanking was like for the tanks... yeah.

... Impatient dps has actually made me stop doing heroics because of their inability to play like they should.


And this is the reason Blizzard has resorted to CTA to get tanks into heroics. I am not saying there aren't legitimate problems with tanking atm (see above), but at least as serious as those tank problems is the fact that tanking *changed* in Cataclysm from how it was in Wrath, and the DPS seem to be refusing to adjust.
90 Orc Death Knight
10920
Even more disappointment to add on to the disappointment that the game has been since this x-pac was released. Good job on avoiding the good questions from the community these questions were focused on.
90 Night Elf Druid
13175
So they confirmed another legendary in 4.3? Though it'll be for a smaller crowd? And it's not the tank crowd.

I'm thinking agi 2h. Hmm

A throwing knife... or a wand


A wand with ONLY spirit and a chance to proc a very low HoT.
Edited by Verrin on 6/8/2011 12:50 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Death Knight
3390
You know, a better price would not be 'dps pulls aggro and takes damage that costs the healer'. A better price would be dps pulls aggro, EVERYONE finds out it is the dps' fault for focusing on the wrong thing, etc, and dies instantly without a chance for a taunt OR a heal.

I am not saying dps is always at fault, but there are times it definitely is and the 'punishment' for messing up should not be put on another role's shoulders. Why punish healers or tanks for someone else's mistake, let their mistake scream for themselves.


Better yet, I would love a mechanic where unecessary damage taken by DPS including melee hits from pulling aggro put a damage shield on the mob that only the tank (the real tank) and disc priests and resto shammies (I got your guy's backs /wink) can damage through.

Let's see the DPS'rs turn on each other instead of just blaming the healers and tanks. :D
47 Draenei Priest
220
I SHALL BOIL THIS HERE Q&A DOWN TO 1 QUESTION FOR THE MASSES:


Q: So I guess Paladin tanks will be the preferred tank by a long shot for the present and future?
A: Yup!


I thought Cataclysm was supposed to bring the change, ah it's Obama all over again!!
90 Night Elf Druid
13175
You know, a better price would not be 'dps pulls aggro and takes damage that costs the healer'. A better price would be dps pulls aggro, EVERYONE finds out it is the dps' fault for focusing on the wrong thing, etc, and dies instantly without a chance for a taunt OR a heal.

I am not saying dps is always at fault, but there are times it definitely is and the 'punishment' for messing up should not be put on another role's shoulders. Why punish healers or tanks for someone else's mistake, let their mistake scream for themselves.


Better yet, I would love a mechanic where unecessary damage taken by DPS including melee hits from pulling aggro put a damage shield on the mob that only the tank (the real tank) and disc priests and resto shammies (I got your guy's backs /wink) can damage through.

Let's see the DPS'rs turn on each other instead of just blaming the healers and tanks. :D


This was so evil! /"secretly" approves.
85 Troll Shaman
7910
I've been working on some alts capable of tanking, and this Q&A is not motivating me to continue that effort at all. Very disappointed in the responses, and Blizzard's choice to waste two questions on changes implemented months ago or recently announced in 4.2 patch notes.
90 Draenei Paladin
10610
Was there even a reason to have this "Ask the Devs"?
06/08/2011 01:00 PMPosted by Pett
Was there even a reason to have this "Ask the Devs"?


To waste everyone's time?
5 Draenei Warrior
0
06/08/2011 01:01 PMPosted by Spplat
Was there even a reason to have this "Ask the Devs"?


To waste everyone's time?
90 Night Elf Druid
13175
I'll stir the pot here...

There's a webshow called Legendary, one of the panel is a guy called "mikeb" and has a toon called "Fony". He's a pretty smart guy, very good at pvp.

He "abused" Legendary, the BFF Report (on wowhead), twitter, and a LOT of other places to get one of his pvp questions voted up. Despite ancedotal evidence that his question had tons and tons of hits, the question went unanswered. As you fellow druids know, we had our own "call to like" thread, when we were asked to vote up questions posted by Arielle. Not a single question Arielle asked made it to the Q&A. Arielle is a respected theorycrafter, and is know to other posters in the community, and not a single question made it? Very well... here's my suggestion for Blizzard, to help bail them out of this cherry picking method that I'm accusing them of. They have POLLS, that display percentages - ask us to submit questions, then cherry pick them for a poll. Let's see how many people voted for what, and you get us off your back, Blizzard. Easy peasy.
100 Human Mage
18110
[quote="26319813112"]Q: Is there any plan to add a new tank class in the future? I think spell breaker in the Warcraft III is an awesome choice for that! 聖淇淋 (TW)

    A: We’ll add new classes when the time is right. We don’t see WoW as a game that can support unlimited different class types (and the different talent specs almost behave as full classes these days!), so we want to be judicious about when we add classes. One of the challenges with tanks (and other roles) especially, is this: on the one hand, there is a core set of abilities that any tank needs in order to perform their job, especially in a 5-player dungeon where you can’t rely on other players in the same role to help cover your deficiencies. On the other hand, having so many similar abilities (e.g. a taunt, a short cooldown, an efficient heal) necessitates a certain amount of homogeneity among those classes. But what players (and designers!) really want in a new class is something exciting that no one has seen before. Adding another class that tanked just like a warrior wouldn’t add much to the game – it wouldn’t drive many new tanks or encourage a veteran tank to try a different tanking class. On the other hand, adding the death knight, who tanks relatively differently (though some players might argue still not differently enough) was an enormous challenge and the kind of thing we continue to tweak over time.



battle mage tank ftw? maybe... plz?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7615
06/08/2011 11:41 AMPosted by Dämmerung
I'm really very dissapointed in these answers blizzard. Way to pick all the softball questions.


They didn't pick softball questions, they picked totally irrelevant questions... seriously.

And I do agree with bears, unless they can rebirth while in bear form... well... that's not really very dependable utility there. While I don't want to be nerfed, bears have a very valid point (non-bear form rebirth and weak innervate are... weak).

I'd prefer other tanks get utility enhancements, cause making choices that matter = fun play! I really only do 5 mans (ZA/ZG tank here... sigh), but it makes me feel good to LoH the healer to save the day or raid wall at a nice time and skillfully using my bubble to drop stacks of badness on me.

Unfortunately, I suspect that Bliz will go the easy route and just nerf pally utility rather than buff druid/war utility so we end up with less interesting play for all tanks.
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2690
I'll stir the pot here...

There's a webshow called Legendary, one of the panel is a guy called "mikeb" and has a toon called "Fony". He's a pretty smart guy, very good at pvp.

He "abused" Legendary, the BFF Report (on wowhead), twitter, and a LOT of other places to get one of his pvp questions voted up. Despite ancedotal evidence that his question had tons and tons of hits, the question went unanswered. As you fellow druids know, we had our own "call to like" thread, when we were asked to vote up questions posted by Arielle. Not a single question Arielle asked made it to the Q&A. Arielle is a respected theorycrafter, and is know to other posters in the community, and not a single question made it? Very well... here's my suggestion for Blizzard, to help bail them out of this cherry picking method that I'm accusing them of. They have POLLS, that display percentages - ask us to submit questions, then cherry pick them for a poll. Let's see how many people voted for what, and you get us off your back, Blizzard. Easy peasy.

Good luck with that, getting Blizzard to pay attention to good suggestions is like asking North Korea and South Korea to be best friends forever.

I sincerely hope that at some point Bear/Blood tanks will be as valuable to take as a Prot Pally.
2 Gnome Warrior
0
06/08/2011 09:26 AMPosted by Kaivax
Druids: We’re pretty happy with how mastery has turned out. It scales well, doesn’t have any unintuitive or unfortunate interactions with other stats, and provides solid performance value.


This confused me a little. Do the Devs mean to say that the amount of scaling the Druid's Mastery does from tier to tier reflect the goal for the other tank specs?

From what I've read the other 3 tank specs scale quicker so if they are happy with Druid's mastery would that mean the Dev's want to bring the other 3 masteries in line with the Druid scaling?

I kind of figured why the druids got the mitigation buff for 4.2 cause it would be technically tough to nerf the mastery for the block tanks.
85 Night Elf Warrior
3820
Dev Q& A pertaining to roles should be done in their perspective forums, not in the general forums and not announced that way people with actual questions can get them answered.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8335
Is it April 1st again? Are we being trolled? Are the REAL answers coming out tomorrow?

That's all I can think of about this Q&A.
85 Night Elf Druid
0
If you say that Blood tanking is "fine", I will throw a tantrum :<


It's not fine, it's far above the other specs in terms of survivability.

Merely look at http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/mionelol/simple for an idea of what a DK can do. They can not only solo encounters that were mechanically supposed to be impossible for anyone to handle on their own, but they can easily handle themselves 1v2 in an arena game, at any rating below 2200. With the amount of magic-damage mitigation and self-healing that they do, it's a wonder that Blood Death Knight tanks don't replace the others in groups. Either way, it needs to be toned down, hard.

http://blog.mionelol.net/ for videos if the armory isn't enough.


While I agree that things like that should not be possible, you have to account for the fact that blood DKs (in PvE at least) experience the largest separation based on skill out of any class in-game. Things like that might be done by a handful of players throughout the expansion, with RNG on their side, but other DKs (just as well geared in some cases) can't complete random heroics because of how spiky they are to heal. As a healer, I get uneasy whenever I get a DK tank from the DF, because I know that I'll either have wipe protection (very rarely) or a wipe guarantee. I've seen DKs drop to single digit health percents in seconds on pulls that any other tanking class could do in quest greens because their runes were down and they had no blood shield left. I've also seen DPS pull adds and wipe all but the tank (myself included) and had the pleasure of watching the tank solo the rest of the fight.

It's a mixed bag. Nerfs would make the majority of players unfit for even heroics, buffs would make raid-quality players superior to all other tanks by a large margin.
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