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87 Tauren Death Knight
0
i think they should nerf frost mages and arcane.
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85 Undead Mage
4910
I thought Ask the Devs was great. I really enjoyed the system. People complaining ruin everything for everyone.
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100 Dwarf Warrior
13790
06/15/2011 01:32 PMPosted by Culin
Blogs don't work. Ghostcrawler did.

Agreed. He was respectful, but he was also incisive — he confronted erroneous claims or weak logic, which can't be done through hygienic, prepared statements.


06/15/2011 01:44 PMPosted by Boomshacka
But, for the most part, it didn't happen. People still complained all the time, and others flamed others and called Blizzard stupid, called Ghostcrawler an idiot, etc. After months of developing a new game and having rounds and rounds of negative feedback it's literally not surprising at all the GC took a break from the forums and decided to go the blog route.

I was in the beta, and found questionable behavior confined to a few vocal players — some of whom were in the alpha, meaning Blizzard could not have been unaware of those individuals' attitudes. Random poor sports were easy enough to spot and report. Apart from the gadflies who still carry on like Martin Luther about their wayward class, we testers kept it above board.

No, the factor diminishing the beta forums was the disappearance of Ghostcrawler.

We don't know why Street stopped posting. I would assume he'd be the first to agree with the adage about heat and the kitchen: a galactically popular game with thousands of active, passionate players will generate incredible demands and every imaginable criticism. But his absence has opened a wide gulf between Blizzard and its player base; Blue posters come across not as advocates or representatives but messengers. The challenges brought by Cataclysm could have been effectively met through daily, personalized developer communication in the forums, so it's ironic that Blizzard — for whatever reason — chose to abandon it.
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90 Undead Warrior
14270
It's unfortunate that this whole thing is being ended because of people whining about what was being answered.

I for one enjoyed at least seeing some developer feedback on issues, even if they weren't always the ones I was curious about.
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81 Draenei Shaman
0
If Blizzard thinks it needs replacing their must be more wrong than the ungrateful whinners who complained. (They always come out with any atttempt to communicate.)

Here is the code:

"The answers were worthless [insert "wrong", "waste of time" etc.)= I did not agree.
"The players are not being listened too." = I made a suggestion and they did not do it.
"The do not pick good questions." = They did not pick my question, or a question I wanted answered.

And so on.

The good news here, is that the company is still trying to communicate and plan to do so in the future. Oh, and as a foot note. I like(d) the feature.


i can disagree with something because i'm a petulant child, OR BECAUSE MAYBE IT'S WRONG PERHAPS? blood dk and bear masteries. bear innervate/utility. hell, the latter wouldn't have been such a huge issue if they had said rebirth (and maybe sroar, situationally) and left it at that. the main problem with mentioning bear innervate is that it is completely and totally worthless, and anyone who doesn't realize that has no business working on class design. it was less about the statement itself, and more about what it implied.

they obviously didn't listen to the players because right there in that huge block of bear questions they consolidated, they answered literally about half of them. you can't tell me they were listening when the thing they claimed they were listening to was right in front of them and they don't acknowledge it.

they didn't pick good questions: the taunt missing was a good question? it was in its original form, about the pally aoe taunt missing. but someone butchered the translation. that happens sometimes. here's the thing, though: as soon as the person or people in charge of answering the questions saw that a question on a different-language forum was incredibly obvious and still got highly voted, they should have asked for a retranslation instead of shrugging their shoulders and including it. they should have, at the absolute very least, thrown it out on the basis of it being absolutely useless.

Any chance we can find out what else the devs think isn't working right now?

That'd be cool to know... Like a list... Just for #!**s and giggles, you know?!


i'd actually like to see this, but i'm afraid of what might not be on it.
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85 Tauren Warrior
7480
06/15/2011 02:02 PMPosted by Rouri
The dev's answer wasn't just "We think it's fine", but also included "We're giving druids a mitigation buff in 4.2", which effectively skipped the question and moved on. I'm betting most people play this game to relax and have fun, and if certain class/specs start pulling way ahead of or lagging noticeably behind another, it becomes more work to compete and ultimately, less fun.




Ok, so lets say the answer was "Remember how kitty dps was considered the hardest rotation? Well, we wanted bear tanks to be hard mode tanking. They take more skill than the other tank classes. Its harder to tank with them because we are giving the players a class that really does take skill to do what the others can do."


Or what if the answer was (and I'm so making this up to make a point) "We feel that druids have tools in pvp that make giving them more cooldowns difficult to do while keeping them balanced. We have some ideas that we're looking at but they're in the early stages."


Now without looking at either of them being factually accurate (I know little of bears, sorry, but we're not arguing mechanics here anyway) would either of these be more what you're looking for? I'm not trying to be oppositional, I'm trying to establish what people think these Q&A's should look like.

To me the first answer shows what the devs are thinking in their design philosophy (and it would be a fair departure from what they usually believe).


Totally understandable, if they went with an explanation of why they felt it was working fine, I think people might be more open to the answers. Instead it was basically this line regurgitated:

06/15/2011 09:52 AMPosted by Brillak
We like the way _________ is/are preforming. Someday we will go back and improve on _________ but that will not happen for some time. For now, __________ is/are working above our expectations.


If they said "Bear druids are meant to be more difficult", people might not like it but at least it shows their intention. If it came down to unbalance in a PVP setting, that would give credit to the idea to split abilities to have a PVE and PVP effect (they're starting down that path with warrior's Colossus Smash). But at least we'd have some understanding.

Instead we got a bunch of rhetoric that things are panning out as Blizzard expected, but that doesn't jive with what players expect or want. I get that it's just a game, this isn't life-or-death, it doesn't even really matter in the real world. But people invest a LOT of time in their characters, building them up, learning the abilities, not to mention a $15/mo fee that can really add up over time.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask why the company that controls all this seems to be changing features to make things more difficult, tedious, and confusing.
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90 Undead Death Knight
10720
06/15/2011 02:10 PMPosted by Aedilhild
Blogs don't work. Ghostcrawler did.

The challenges brought by Cataclysm could have been effectively met through daily, personalized developer communication in the forums, so it's ironic that Blizzard — for whatever reason — chose to abandon it.


Most of this post is not directed at this poster, but I do want to address that one part. While the sentiments behind the overall post I generally agree with, we must keep in mind that this particular part was an unreasonable expectation from the start. GC's "job" per say is to make the game, and when not this game, the next one. Daily, personalized communication is just so far outside the realm of getting that done it is laughable, yet we as players tend to crave it, and even expect it.

Now, could Blizzard add more people to the staff and make their roles more community interaction AND development? Some kind of 50-50 ratio with the concept that the sacrifie in time/dollars would ultimately make a better end product? Sure, but that isn't the model they have chosen, and I'm sure there are many who would say that the CBO isn't there to justify it.

Another thing to note is that almost all the blue posters we see on this site are NOT WoW people. They are Blizzard people. If you pop up Starcraft2 forums for example and see a blue poster you'll find Bashiok, Neth, and all the familiar names there too. In other words, this isn't the only show in town for them. And while they want you to enjoy this product, it isn't their all encompassing focus and responsibility. As such, the amount of interaction a community of this size demands is untenable.

If Blizzard has done a poor job of anything, it is in defining what an appropriate (in both amount and context) level of communication looks like for the WoW players so that expectations don't vary so dramatically. I can't help but conclude (based on how many variations we've had over the last 5 years or so) that the reason they haven't been able to tell us, is they never sat down and figured that out for themselves first.
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100 Orc Hunter
15400


Our goal with Ask the Devs was always to increase interaction with the developers, to provide a direct conduit to their thoughts and process. We're in the planning stages for a new Q&A process that will replace Ask the Devs, and while we're absolutely certain people will continue to be upset we didn't answer every question, we think it will overall be a far more successful approach.



Why not once a week or every other weeks, pick some of the more interesting threads, make some comments on those threads and then let it go in a locked and stickyed post? Sort of like a Biweekly Forum Recap

For example....

Peruse the different forums for interesting or "hot topics".

Then the Blizzard poster would create a feeback post with format that was something like:

Thread Number 1, Hyperlink to the Thread
Blizzard Response to the thread or thoughts on the topic ----

Thread Number 2, Hyperlink to the Thread
Blizzard Response to the thread or thoughts on the topic ----

etc....

Touch on the topics you want to discuss every couple of weeks in your own thread, that is locked. People can then go back to the original threads and discuss the Blizzard Response to that thread...without expecting a Blizzard response in the original thread.

You guys could still comment on whatever tickles your fancy, but I think something structured every couple of weeks would give the community the impression that Good Topics matter, bad topics don't and we'd all feel like there was a little more interaction from Blizzard that isn't so random. I know as a Hunter, we've made several posts on Hunter PvP gameplay and we haven't heard anything. I think in part, there is too many topics for Blizzard to comment on. Thus they won't comment on any. Having a controlled way of reading Blizzard's thoughts on Forum Feedback will provide an avenue for Players to feel like they are being heard in Anaheim and across the globe.


ps...I can never seem to quote the Blizzard posts correctly =(
Edited by Rexzoolza on 6/15/2011 2:39 PM PDT
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85 Gnome Death Knight
1590
Totally understandable, if they went with an explanation of why they felt it was working fine, I think people might be more open to the answers. Instead it was basically this line regurgitated:

We like the way _________ is/are preforming. Someday we will go back and improve on _________ but that will not happen for some time. For now, __________ is/are working above our expectations.


If they said "Bear druids are meant to be more difficult", people might not like it but at least it shows their intention. If it came down to unbalance in a PVP setting, that would give credit to the idea to split abilities to have a PVE and PVP effect (they're starting down that path with warrior's Colossus Smash). But at least we'd have some understanding.

Instead we got a bunch of rhetoric that things are panning out as Blizzard expected, but that doesn't jive with what players expect or want. I get that it's just a game, this isn't life-or-death, it doesn't even really matter in the real world. But people invest a LOT of time in their characters, building them up, learning the abilities, not to mention a $15/mo fee that can really add up over time.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask why the company that controls all this seems to be changing features to make things more difficult, tedious, and confusing.



I agree with you. But I think there is a disconnect between what the developers are considering an "honest answer" and "showing what they're thinking" versus what the players feel is an "honest answer" and "showing what they're thinking."

If they're going to be successful with a new format of Q&A I think the level of communication we should expect needs to be more fully defined.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
18740
I think it works overall. I just think the best questions aren't always the most popular ones. You could keep this sort of thing going, but let the devs select which questions they want to answer. Then instead of the most popular question (read: complaint), you're more likely to see answers to questions of a more theoretical or philosophical nature.

Even though my tanking question was highly rated, it apparently wasn't high enough, but I get the feeling there's a developer who would enjoy answering why tanks don't feel like they have any control over their own survival.
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84 Night Elf Druid
5770
We've spent a lot of time discussing why it doesn't work, and while that's interesting to us, the bottom line is that once we've finished the role Q&A's with healers, we will be ending the Ask the Dev series.

Our goal with Ask the Devs was always to increase interaction with the developers, to provide a direct conduit to their thoughts and process. We're in the planning stages for a new Q&A process that will replace Ask the Devs, and while we're absolutely certain people will continue to be upset we didn't answer every question, we think it will overall be a far more successful approach.



Where do you plan on going from here, moving forward? (or improvements you guys think could happen).
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2455
It's kinda of funny to see how many people miss GC. Am I the only one who remembers how off topic, sarcastic and unhappy he got? How many times he posted a one liner in a topic that should have been deleted and left it up so people would think he was cool? How about the times that a constructive post would turn into garbage because GC decided to respond to one of the few trolls in it while ignoring the parts that were actually relevant to the topic?

He may have been better than the Ask a Dev but, his format was shut down for a reason as well. We didn't get much clear or accurate communication back then either. We just had a name to lay all the blame on.

Grass is greener.
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100 Orc Shaman
20015
This thread is the perfect example of why the ATD threads did not work. People will be unhappy with any response they garner from the Developers unless they directly answer 'your' question exactly how 'you' want it to be answered. What people don't realize is that sometimes there aren't any nice and neat answers. Sometimes they wont fix your problems. Sometimes they don't think there is a problem. Sometimes they will let you down. Trust me, I am Enhancement Shaman, and I am used to dealing with such circumstances.

That said, Blizzard could solve a lot of these problems by having the developer that actually plays our classes more active in our class specific forums. Its hard to explain the intricate problems of x class y spec to someone who has not ever played x class and y spec to any degree, least of all in a high end raiding environment. People need someone they can relate too, someone who has a perspective on your class problems and can accurately relate those issues to the team as a whole.

Right now the questions fall from the sky like pigeon crap, and we hope they land on the head of a Developer just to catch their attention.
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100 Tauren Shaman
11935
And honestly? The blog format isn't working.

Ghostcrawler has brought up some great discussion topics, but the format is terrible for discussing the actually topics. We get some weird comment system that makes a statement hard to follow, and there's no follow up thoughts in reaction to whatever is discussed.

To give an example:

Ghostcrawler: What if interrupts had longer CDs?
Us: Lots of stuff would need to be rebalanced, but it would be healthier for the game. Have you considered giving a sort of DR or immunity to multiple lockouts, to prevent melee from simply training and locking down a caster? Breathing room was a big point about Cataclysm.

And then it just ends. If GC had made a thread, he could come back and tell us if that would work, maybe discuss what a good length for a longer cooldown would be, and so on.

That is what I miss from WotLK. I do acknowledge the whiney threads asking for GC posts, but they still exist today! Nothing has really changed on the whine front, but the flow of information to players has become tainted and erratic.

I submit this as proof of a valuable and informative thread:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1649/are-dk-tanks-going-to-get-a-buff-soon

See, this is what I'm talking about.

People don't just want to hear the devs, and they don't just need to know the devs are listening.

People want discussion, a back-and-forth of ideas, in order to better the game as a whole. Even if the devs don't agree or implement every single idea, at least we'd know "Well, the devs noticed my idea and <blah blah blah> is why they didn't like it," instead of wondering if our feedback even got noticed.

Also: as Hothgor said above, assigning specific people to one class at a time would be absolutely a GODSEND. If the players know for a fact "Hey, at least one of the higher-ups play my spec and can see what I'm talking about directly" then it's easier for us to talk shop to the devs without getting extremely irate.

Like, for example - GC has claimed numerous times to play a Warrior. A Prot Warrior even. That doesn't exactly MEAN anything, but the Warrior community can know for a fact that if THEY experience a bug, it's likely that GC himself is also aware, since he actually plays the class.

In my situation, if there was some kind of Shaman community representative who plays Shaman at all, if not Enhancement, he would perfectly understand EXACTLY where we come from when we complain about our current AoE set up.
Edited by Matuk on 6/15/2011 4:53 PM PDT
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85 Gnome Death Knight
4190
Madia

The tanking answers were a joke. 3.9 patch question answered, smooth stuff.

To reciprocate the latest lot of questions were even worse, got ganked by one group of players.

Equilibrium I guess, everyone's doing an equally bad job with the Q and A.

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100 Troll Shaman
12735
See, this is what I'm talking about.

People don't just want to hear the devs, and they don't just need to know the devs are listening.

People want discussion, a back-and-forth of ideas, in order to better the game as a whole. Even if the devs don't agree or implement every single idea, at least we'd know "Well, the devs noticed my idea and <blah blah blah> is why they didn't like it," instead of wondering if our feedback even got noticed.

Also: as Hothgor said above, assigning specific people to one class at a time would be absolutely a GODSEND. If the players know for a fact "Hey, at least one of the higher-ups play my spec and can see what I'm talking about directly" then it's easier for us to talk shop to the devs without getting extremely irate.

Like, for example - GC has claimed numerous times to play a Warrior. A Prot Warrior even. That doesn't exactly MEAN anything, but the Warrior community can know for a fact that if THEY experience a bug, it's likely that GC himself is also aware, since he actually plays the class.

In my situation, if there was some kind of Shaman community representative who plays Shaman at all, if not Enhancement, he would perfectly understand EXACTLY where we come from when we complain about our current AoE set up.


this right here

that is all
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50 Draenei Shaman
560
And honestly? The blog format isn't working.

Ghostcrawler has brought up some great discussion topics, but the format is terrible for discussing the actually topics. We get some weird comment system that makes a statement hard to follow, and there's no follow up thoughts in reaction to whatever is discussed.

To give an example:

Ghostcrawler: What if interrupts had longer CDs?
Us: Lots of stuff would need to be rebalanced, but it would be healthier for the game. Have you considered giving a sort of DR or immunity to multiple lockouts, to prevent melee from simply training and locking down a caster? Breathing room was a big point about Cataclysm.

And then it just ends. If GC had made a thread, he could come back and tell us if that would work, maybe discuss what a good length for a longer cooldown would be, and so on.

That is what I miss from WotLK. I do acknowledge the whiney threads asking for GC posts, but they still exist today! Nothing has really changed on the whine front, but the flow of information to players has become tainted and erratic.

I submit this as proof of a valuable and informative thread:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1649/are-dk-tanks-going-to-get-a-buff-soon

See, this is what I'm talking about.

People don't just want to hear the devs, and they don't just need to know the devs are listening.

People want discussion, a back-and-forth of ideas, in order to better the game as a whole. Even if the devs don't agree or implement every single idea, at least we'd know "Well, the devs noticed my idea and <blah blah blah> is why they didn't like it," instead of wondering if our feedback even got noticed.

Also: as Hothgor said above, assigning specific people to one class at a time would be absolutely a GODSEND. If the players know for a fact "Hey, at least one of the higher-ups play my spec and can see what I'm talking about directly" then it's easier for us to talk shop to the devs without getting extremely irate.

Like, for example - GC has claimed numerous times to play a Warrior. A Prot Warrior even. That doesn't exactly MEAN anything, but the Warrior community can know for a fact that if THEY experience a bug, it's likely that GC himself is also aware, since he actually plays the class.

In my situation, if there was some kind of Shaman community representative who plays Shaman at all, if not Enhancement, he would perfectly understand EXACTLY where we come from when we complain about our current AoE set up.

I have to agree with this. When GC still posted on the forums, he was very incorrect about certain shaman mechanics, for example when the original soulstone/brez/ankh changes were announced. It would really be reassuring ton know somebody on the team knows what's going on.
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85 Draenei Shaman
7350
06/15/2011 10:38 AMPosted by Bashiok
Our goal with Ask the Devs was always to increase interaction with the developers, to provide a direct conduit to their thoughts and process.


Listen, This is the type of bridge selling that it not working and why I have lost faith in you Community reps for WoW and Lost faith in the developers who work upon WoW.

Stop shoveling me this type of lying.


Tell the Truth! The Q&A is to protect your rockstar Developers who can't handle bright sunlight and would rather stay hidden behind the protective shield of PR reps who filter what those developers get.


I'll ask again why have I never seen J. Allan Brack speak out on the forums ever yet at the 3 Blizzcons I attended we've seen him sitting there with the title of Lead Producer, and answering questions. When he wasn't up there making jokes of those questions asked.

*this is my frustrated response written with angry frustration* :(
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