Why are rogues the least played class?

90 Night Elf Druid
10610
We saw a surge in the popularity of hybrid classes, especially druids and paladins, as running heroic dungeons became something nearly every player did instead of a more dedicated minority.


Is that just coincidence? It strikes me that at the same time Blizzard was also making a much more concentrated effort to make all three specs of Druids viable. I can remember a time in BC when playing feral was considered a joke by any serious raider. Druids healed and that was basically it. I'd say that to some extent this even was true in early Wrath.

I would guess, perhaps incorrectly, that making all three specs of Druids viable had more to do with their surge in popularity than the increased popularity of dungeons.
90 Troll Rogue
12450
06/20/2011 06:26 PMPosted by Nrv
PVP: ...because if you're going to be melee, you might as well be wearing plate. Seriously, a good rogue can do really amazing things. A bad warrior, dk, or ret can do those same things easier and with less skill, finesse, or risk.


I agree. Don't screw with rogues they are fine they are the only thing left in this game that is hard to play well and I enjoy being in the minority. Don't be putting flavour in my coffee I asked for coffee flavoured coffee.
90 Orc Hunter
10565
Rogues and Warlocks are the least played because they have too much ramp-up and they are too dependent on cooldowns. Also, they need to multi-task like crazy to be efficient.

I play a Warlock full vicious and I have more fun in BGs on my Elemental Shaman (true story).
85 Orc Rogue
1710
This rogue, that i made last month, is the first one i've ever gotten past level 20.

So all of my opinions are very much first impressions.

  • The specs lack a distinct playstyle from one another. Sure a bleed spec, a poison spec, and a melee spec sounds great on paper but theres no distinct difference in how you play. All three specs rely on Slice and Dice, and Rupture, the only difference between Combat and Muta is one has a 1 cp filler the others generate's 2.
  • Subtely is too hard. Sure call me a nuub if you want, I'm admittedly not great at melee dps, but sub is just way to difficult. Trying to keep everything up and still managing to have enough energy to use shadow dance or eviscerate is just way to complex for what you get out of it. Backstab's positional requirement only serves to make it even more of a pain
  • Combo Points on targets instead of on the rogue. Sucks.
  • Rogues have the single least interesting AoE of any class. You literally do nothing but spam Fan of knives
  • All of the fun/interesting/useful abilities are in Subtlety. Things like Shadowstep, Premeditation, and Preperation should be available to all rogue specs.
  • 100 Gnome Rogue
    21200
    Rogues and Warlocks are the least played because they have too much ramp-up and they are too dependent on cooldowns. Also, they need to multi-task like crazy to be efficient.

    I play a Warlock full vicious and I have more fun in BGs on my Elemental Shaman (true story).


    Seeing big numbers pop up when you do an attack as a new player has a huge psychological impact. If a new player is not seeing those numbers they may not understand how damage is meant to be balanced in the long run. By the time a player hits 85 anymore, they will not have a good idea of what consistent or good dps is. But what they do remember is how the DK or warrior or another class could 1 or 2 shot a mob in an instance, live and be able to heal through it later.

    If your class is going to be able to be good at dps in the long course of a fight but have terrible burst and and another class will also have good dps over the course of the fight but stronger burst damage, why would you choose the first unless you already knew you were in it for the long run?
    85 Night Elf Rogue
    6495
    I think is because playing with an rogue is really hard in pvp.

    I have played with a lot of class in pvp and, in my opinian, rogue is the far harder.

    90 Human Warlock
    17825
    06/20/2011 06:26 PMPosted by Elnia
    [quote]We saw a surge in the popularity of hybrid classes, especially druids and paladins, as running heroic dungeons became something nearly every player did instead of a more dedicated minority.

    Is that just coincidence? It strikes me that at the same time Blizzard was also making a much more concentrated effort to make all three specs of Druids viable.

    If it was just Druid rep that went up, maybe it could be a coincidence.

    But no, all hybrids went up a lot, and the 2 hybrids that went up the most (Druid and Paladin) are 'coincidently' the 2 hybrids with the most role options (able to fill all 3).

    Being able to fulfill more roles is an advantage, and a big one. And rather then making any attempt to balance around those advantages, bliz is just denoting some classes as 'blessed' (Hybrids) and cursed (Pures), and leaving them that way, then saying its ok if their populations drop like rocks.

    It probably would'nt be so bad if the pures at least had variety between their specs, but really, all 3 specs of all pures except mages all play fundamentally the same. If I'm destro I throw up immolate and corruption and bane, then spam a 2sec nuke while peppering in a chaos bolt on cooldown. If I'm affliction, I do the same thing, only replace immolate with unstable affliction and chaos bolt with Haunt. If I'm Demo, I also do the same thing, only replace chaos bolt with Hand of Gul'dan.

    Hunters and Rogues are pretty much in the same boat.... no matter what spec you chose, your rotation is gonna be pretty close to identical. And whats worse, because all the specs use the same itemization and have near identical rotations, the only thing that really matters in choosing what you should play is DPS, so one spec sims out a tad higher in dps and everyone is forced to play that spec, and any illusion of having 3 spec choices goes right out the window. Balance vs Feral or Enhance vs Elemental is waaaay more choice in what dps spec you want to play then anything any pure class gets to pick from.

    The only pure that has any substantial deviation between it's specs are mages, and guess what Pure class seems to be doing the best overall?

    And the real trajedy is it did'nt have to be this way. A lot of hunters asked BLiz to make survival a melee dual wield ranger spec, or to make marks a petless spec. Any number of locks asked for metamorphosis to be permenant so it could be a melee spec. Most destro locks I know hate having to use bane and corruption. Affliction has been begging bliz to let us use Drain Life as a filler, but no, they are hellbent on making sure locks have 2 different shadowbolt spam specs - why balance around 3 fillers when you can make 2 specs use the exact same core rotation? Making and balancing specs that are actually stand-out different from their peers is just too much effort to waste on pure classes, so we get stuck with 3 specs that are all washed out copies of one another that have no real character or significant differences between them - real spec choices are for hybrids, pures only get the illusion.

    Roll a hybrid and you get 3 toons for the price of one - why should anyone keep rolling pures under that model? Why are rogues the lowest pop class? Because you can just roll a cat instead and get the same playstyle, but if you get bored being a cat you can be a bear or a tree or a boomkin without having to lose all your achievements and mount and pets etc.... you can farm BOP gear for another role while playing your cat. Cats are just better.
    Edited by Thanatosia on 6/20/2011 7:50 PM PDT
    100 Human Rogue
    18920
    06/20/2011 06:46 PMPosted by Horrak
    All of the fun/interesting/useful abilities are in Subtlety. Things like Shadowstep, Premeditation, and Preperation should be available to all rogue specs.
    That was talked about in the past and blizz said what everyone else said why would people play sub then.

    But thats a design problem they should work on.

    85 Human Death Knight
    7225
    Rogue used to be pretty popular in vanilla, and probably decent in BC, and then died off in WotLK. I mainly played rogue until DK game out and swapped to that, find it amusing that the blue mentioned that, not sure why DKs did that. I guess the playstyle is similar to a BC hemo rogue, just mashing buttons.
    90 Draenei Shaman
    8365
    About combo points: I think having them on your character, like Holy Power, would make gameplay more interesting, as you would get to feel like you're actually comboing multiple enemies at the same time.

    Imagine someone who starts comboing an opponent and then stops because it has to - that looks rather sad and feels the same way.

    Now imagine someone attacking multiple enemies at the same time, doing a complex combo between all of them, like an anime character - that looks rather awesome and feels a lot better.

    It influences player perception of the class, which I think is one of the major reasons to tinker with classes, no?
    85 Night Elf Rogue
    4085
    06/20/2011 01:45 PMPosted by Daxxarri
    We also think rogues were more popular back in the day before flying mounts and instance-teleportation, where ganking someone out in the wilderness was more common


    You have no idea how much I hate flying mounts because of this. And I only started playing at the end of Wrath.
    85 Blood Elf Priest
    6640
    06/20/2011 01:45 PMPosted by Daxxarri
    We don't want to give the perception that the class is dying or anything like that.


    That is what i call 'the writing is on the wall'.
    85 Worgen Druid
    11130
    06/20/2011 01:45 PMPosted by Daxxarri
    We made some changes (i.e. stealth movement speed) to try and make some of the rogue mechanics more fun and this is the kind of thing we'll continue to keep an eye on.


    Really? Making them walk faster is a fun new mechanic that you think will spice up the class?

    How about an actual, you know, mechanic? One that's not garbage like BG or RS.
    85 Human Warrior
    5515
    Rogue is the least played class at 85 because of the learning curve while leveling. Faceroll Ambush >Eviscerate = everything dead 1-80, especially if leveling by BGs. At 80+ you start to need a brain because of HP gain, but ofc the player is too used to 1 shot everything, he finds it boring having to fight a mob for more than 2 seconds, or seeing his 2 button combo not working in BGs.

    I remember leveling rogue back in the day, combat is the way to level 1 - 80, or assasin from mutilate. Sub wasn't the way to level because it takes a long time to kill a mob, but if u played it you get to know all the skills and combos like gouge > backstab ....

    If you try leveling a character through BGs 10-80, there are way more rogues than warlocks, priests and shamans.

    Long story short, scale down 1-shot class abilities like ambush, ravage, aimed shot etc at low levels. The player gets trained, know and love their class.

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