Why are rogues the least played class?

85 Undead Rogue
8540
Rogue gameplay hasnt really changed since BC, since from BC to Cata the only thing i do differently in pvp is recup, and in pve its recup/redirect. Apart from those 2 things the gameplay of rogues hasnt changed, its the same with locks! then you look at warriors and mages and all the cool things they get every Xpac and you think why do i play a class that never gets anything cool when i could play others that gets something super awesome every Xpac.
100 Gnome Rogue
17650
Rogues are absolutely fine. Absolutely fine. They are competitive in pve, they are competitive in pvp. They are no more boring than any other class, they are no more complex than any other class, they are fine.

Get over yourselves, and play your class, and enjoy it, or pick something else.


Bad troll, bad. It's like you didn't even read that rogues have minimal burst and poor target switching in raids. It's like you didn't even realize that most raid fights in Cata require lots of target switching and/or off target time which punish all melee but especially rogues. But since you're a troll I guess all that doesn't matter.
Edited by Faiyd on 6/21/2011 9:50 PM PDT
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2455
Rogues are the nostalgia class. They occasionally get great moments to look back upon and then drudge their way through life until the next moment.

I kinda find it odd that that large blue response could be stated as we don't care and still have the same context.
85 Blood Elf Rogue
11015
Want to know why nobody is playing rogues anymore? Pretty simple.

We are by the far the class that is most penalized in PVE because of our mechanics in PVP. Everything we need in PVE is kept from us because it would hurt some random level 30 guy on a PVP server.

Can we burst? No. Can we target switch without losing all our dps? No.

So we don't get to do top dps in raids anymore. But wait there's more.
What's our role in raids? We get to interrupt! Everyone loves that job right?

It gets even better. Blizzard has baked into our new set bonus the requirement to tricks every 30 seconds for a dps benefit. So this is what we have to look forward to. Doing interrupt rotations while in a tricks rotation. Fun right?

It's so bad that some guilds including mine have one raiding rogue left. Good luck with that tricks rotation when you're the only rogue.

Does Blizzard seriously think bad dps isn't a reason why so many people went from rogue to DK?


Yep, I agree 100%.

Essentially *every* problem we have in PVE right now is because Blizzard is too afraid it will break something in PVP, and in turn its making us more and more useless in PVE. But the worst part is, it really seems like its just us that are stuck in the position. Warriors, DK's, Mages, and Hunters are all allowed to have burst and none are penalized for for target swapping...AND 3/4 of those clases out DPS us. Here we sit with 3 specs that all require ridiculous ramp-up, punish us for target swapping, and reward us with mediocre damage. It's complete bull****, plain and simple. And the fact that the devs have nothing to say on the matter only compounds it. Even the top players and theorycrafters are starting to question what the hell the devs are thinking, but we still have yet to hear a response.

And yes, it does indeed feel like we are only in the raid as a support class now. All we contribute is interrupts and Tricks, and as time goes on more and more people get fed up with it.
85 Tauren Paladin
12405
Pure DPS class that has to hit in Melee and is underpowered PvE but overpowered PvP. . . why would anyone want to play it?
85 Blood Elf Rogue
11015
Why are rogues so upset about PVE?

Ret was "lucky" enough to be blessed with essentially a direct copy of the rogue rotation.

Stack combo po....holy power until a 30 sec buff can be applied. Then stack more com.....holy power and attack. Repeat to ensure the buff is still up.


Your clone combo points are better than our original combo points, though.
85 Blood Elf Hunter
1675
Why are rogues so upset about PVE?

Ret was "lucky" enough to be blessed with essentially a direct copy of the rogue rotation.

Stack combo po....holy power until a 30 sec buff can be applied. Then stack more com.....holy power and attack. Repeat to ensure the buff is still up.


To be fair, I see as many ret paladins as I do rogues. Both playstyles kinda blow imo for pve.
100 Night Elf Rogue
8640
As much as I'm disappointed with Blizz's response here (there are obvious balance issues that have been blatently ignored), I will still refuse to re-roll a bloody hybrid or ranged pure just to faceroll to the top of the meters.
I've always been a rogue and I love it, the fact that there are less of us only makes the really awesome rogues stand out from the bunch even more.
I see it as a challange rather than a lost cause.
Really good/talented rogues are still totally competitive, you just have to be a much better player than everyone else to ensure your raid spot...... BRING IT!..
100 Night Elf Rogue
8535
Trade you my 4.5 second combo point that stacks on us for your insanely fast building combo point that stacks on them.


You only have three to go though....and you have many many talents that let you instantly get three or use your attacks as if you had 3.

Trade us that too and ill take it.

Also play combat for a while and see how just "insanely fast" it can be...
Edited by Timat on 6/21/2011 11:50 PM PDT
100 Night Elf Rogue
8535
We randomly get 3 according to the RNG gods.

And we have a 2 min cooldown that lets it stack as if there were 3. Really nothing amazing there. So sure take them along with the retarded mechanics of dodge/parry and crusader strike.


I will play combat if you play prot and see how well you can kill other people.


But...prot isnt ment to kill people..

And actually I do have an 85 pally and have played pre-cata prot before (Ret/Holy now)
Edited by Timat on 6/21/2011 11:58 PM PDT
I still think Tyiako summed up many of our issues pretty well back on page 8 (before the blue post).

TLDR: Any number of reasons:
The non-dps role in pvp
The limited dps role in pve
The similarities between the specs
The static abilities which are archaic and simply designed. not 'poorly' designed(with exceptions like bandits guile) but much less fun, enjoyable, or thoughtful as they could be.
Fragility outside of cooldowns(yes, recup is nice, but a rogue without cooldowns is still a dead rogue in any competitive pvp)
The severe penalties that come with poor decision making

The non-DPS role in pvp

Rogues are the only class with a dps spec played in pvp that is not taken to dps, but instead to cause enough chaos among the enemy team to allow the real heavy hitters to take down a kill. If you ever play sub rogue/healer, it's painful. Auto loss against any other heal/dps team unless they are bad. Having a dps spec yet not bringing the satisfying facesmashing numbers that dks. rets, and warriors get is just disheartening.

The limited dps role in pve

One of four classes regulated to strictly dps. Even if the playstyles were fun, the same role every time grows boring eventually. Also, as melee dps, any mechanic that penalizes melee roles is more severe on rogues than any of the other pures, and unlike their melee brethren, rogues can't respec into another role to escape this.

The similarities between the specs

All specs play pretty much the same- combo point generator, finisher, repeat. All rogues dual wield. In fact, rogues are the only class that MUST, regardless of spec, always wield a specific setup(a pair of one handed weapons.) every other class (sometimes depending on spec) has the option of a 2handed weapon, or a weapon and shield, or even a weapon/frill combo. Unlike mages or hunters, who share similar similarities among their specs, rogue attacks have simple, nonflashy animations. they dont even get the orange/white/blue of mages.
Static abilities/ archaic and simple mechanics.

As someone else mentioned, they really dropped the ball on rogue mechanics. 'combos' are only the same attack 3-5 times, and you can't even mix and match them, each spec has its defining ability. Combos are therefore always the same, the only variable being the finisher(1-3 finishers) and how many times you pressed mutisterrhagestab. combo points are stuck on the target, damage is mostly passive, combos are non-interactive with minimal changes depending on the situation. It's not even 1234, its 11112.
Fragility outside of cooldowns(and general unreliability of them) This mostly applies to leveling. Back in the day, it was one mob at a time, and you'd better have first aid. I actually picked alchemy back then on my first rogue so I could have access to heals. If two mobs came, you'd better have evasion or vanish up, or else. Now, with recup its a little better, but you're still blowing cooldowns if you want less downtime and more than oen target at once. And until recently, rogue cooldowns had built in failure rates... wait 3 minutes to have your defense fail anyway...

The severe penalties that come with poor decision making

Small mistakes(especially in pvp) tend to come with large costs, moreso than other specs. Especially in regards to timing, cooldown usage, resource pooling, and which order you make use of your abilities. To an extent, mages and hunters suffer from similar problems(id say hunters have it the worst, then rogues, then mages). Put simply, it is harder to recover from a mistake as a rogue than a majority of other classes.
85 Worgen Warrior
2665
Questing, Farming, 5-mans, PVP and somtimes Trash are the only places where the rogue abilities come life. I mean heck even after raiding i usually go and quest to just to get the feel for the class again.
Edited by Slateridge on 6/22/2011 1:10 AM PDT
I'll suggest them again:

(1) Throw as an instant (ie. on the run) but on both GCD and Weapon Speed CD. Will help Mut/Combat mobility (ranged snare), won't do anything for Sub (already has it with HaT/Premed -> DT, and no improvement talents). It's also something to do while eternally snared/slowed and gives some nice raid utility.

(2) Combo points on the Rogue. Keep Redirect (20s CD?) for the Combat Rogues or change/fix Bandits Guile.

(3) Implement player pickpocketing. NOT FROM THEIR BANK/BAGS!!! Just from a mob-like respawning "pocket" that they never see. Require the PvP flag to be up to attempt it. It'd be a GREAT challenge and wouldn't hurt anybody.

(4) Throw some traps around dungeons and maybe RBGs. Consider bringing swirly ball back.

(5) This one is important: Make tier 1 & 2 talents of each tree equally desirable to off-spec. Lack of choice = boring.

(6) Sub needs more sustained damage for PvE, provide a mechanic for a single opener per 20-30s (one rotation of SnD/Recup/etc). Shadow Step is a good candidate (ie "allows next combo move within 3 seconds to be an opener). That increases the pace, procs Initiative and Find Weakness, and provides for a complex and interesting rotation. It also won't OP PvP (silence on DR).

(7) Improved Expose Armor is a worthless talent. NO ONE take it. Mut's biggest complaint right now is that it's booooooooooring. Replace IEA with something INTERESTING (Mut only has Cold Blood, Sub has Prep/Premed/ShadowStep/even Dance since it's not just a passive damage modifier like Vendetta).

(8) Combat Potency is RNG and Combat Rogues are complaining of energy capping. Make it a Proc Per Minute (PPM) mechanic. That'll help even out energy gains for all Combat Rogues and allow reduce the penalty for a slow OH without penalizing Rogues who like a fast OH.

(9) Celinne suggestion for Killing Spree: Blade Flurry on, KSpree as now; Blade Flurry off, KSpree current target. -------->>>>>> You might be able to make this talent more interesting by letting a player decide WHEN to teleport within a given short timeframe.

------------

I think that'd all go a loooooooooong way toward making Rogues not just more viable, but more fun ... and without pushing them over other classes.
Here's a few more:


(10) Remove the stealth requirement of Premeditation. Unlike PvP Rogues, PvE Rogues can't slink off and re-stealth during a boss fight, the DPS loss is too high. They have to rely on Vanish(2m)/Prep(5m), so can't use this great ability often. This would work GREAT in concert with #6 above (more forgiving rotation irl combo points).

(11) Bring back craft-able poisons. Keep DP/IP/WP/MN/CP at poison vendors, just allow players with certain professions to craft unique/different poisons for PvE content. I'm sure plenty of raid buffs could be pulled out of this, and maybe a few quests/acheivements/etc. Again, IT HURTS NO ONE.

(12) Having two defensive CDs, Evasion and Combat Readiness is redundant. yes, I know CR works infinitely better than Evasion, but it's still two different button binds on two different CDs to essentially do the same thing, reduce incoming damage. Get rid of one, reduce the CD on the other, buff/nerf as appropriate. Few will care if it's not a 80-85 ability, most everyone plays at level cap anyway. <-- If done properly, this shouldn't affect game balance, just reduce Rogue keybinds/CDs by 1.

EDIT:
(13) Expose Armor is currently nearly worthless. Have it stack with other armor reducing abilities. That's a nice little raid bonus and a reason to bring Rogues along ... and does absolutely noting to PvP balance.

EDIT2: Here's one from another thread.
(14) Rogue survivability too high? Don't nerf CloS (that's overkill), instead force a choice. Swap Improved Recuperate into Combat tier 2. Result: Quickening, Improved Recuperate, Elusiveness: Pick 2. This suggestion in line with #5 above, making Rogue tier 1 & 2 talents equally desirable for off-specing.
Edited by Madcapmcgee on 6/22/2011 4:11 AM PDT
85 Human Rogue
13830
I don't enjoy playing my rogue, but just do it because I have been for over 6 years now, and don't really intend to just cut that kind of time investment short this far in.

Rogue mechanics are, and always have been, pathetic. No matter what spec I play, I feel like I'm basically an affliction lock, maintaining rotations without the excitement of seeing big numbers or even major cooldowns. Vanilla was a write off, since you could macro any class completely. TBC almost every class got to spam 1 button and see huge numbers, where rogues had to, as usual, maintain SnD, rupture, and eviscerate when possible. Wrath, we got some fun with HAT, but how fast was that trashed? One month into Naxx? Cata, yay, I get to maintain rupture, SnD, AND envenom uptime now. Aside from killing spree (which also got nerfed), all of our CDs are passive damage increases or give us the ability to spam harder. @*@#, I miss when Riposte would light up on my bars in PvP and I had a reactive ability that hit decently hard. Speaking of passive, we do nearly 60% of our damage simply by right clicking. It's completely unenjoyable and lackluster.

We bring no unique buffs, tricks is mainly used to bolster our already pathetic damage, shamans make better interrupters, and abilities like Expose are completely useless.

Excuse me for saying this, but if all I can do is deal damage, then I want to be at the top with the pure dps classes, even though this is an age old argument. But hell, rogues aren't even competitive right now. http://goo.gl/hniYw Let alone topping meters, we are behind every single class except paladins. Rogues suffer the most from mobility issues of any class, are heavily penalized for swapping targets, or making a mistake in general, have pitiful burst, and no multi-dot capabilities.

And after farming content for months, do I get to collect a second set of gear and @*@# around? No, if I'm lucky I get to switch from Mutilate to Combat, when they feel like making combat viable, where the only difference is the ability to cleave. In PvE, the distinction between specs is completely blurred, with nearly identical playstyles for combat and mutilate, and sub gets to toss in Shadowdance and Recup. We have had to watch videos of warlocks, hunters, death knights, mages, paladins, warrior tanks, shadow priests, and druids solo all these encounters and challenge themselves because of either ridiculous mitigation, regen, or kiting abilities, and what do we get? It took that rogue on MMO (excuse me for forgetting his name) TWO HOURS to kill Patchwerk and he had to use a @*@#ing rat as a means of shadowstepping to force Patchwerk to path and give him time to reset his CDs.

Also, the blue post that rogues are overpowered? Rogues are one of the quickest classes to get slammed with nerfs in PvE. Developers have even admitted that HfB was a beautiful design because it allowed them to simply "tuning the damage buff % accordingly". Which, btw, was another bull@#%* nerf, because people were looking at inflated rogue damage due to tricks trading. I can't recall a time ever, aside from dual glaives, where rogues "topped meters" for more than a month before getting @#%* on.

Rogues in PvP are very close to mages in terms of skill cap. It's a joke to play MOST comps as a rogue to 2200, since at that gear/skill level, a full CC rotation and two smokebombs + a dance will kill nearly anything. The amount of finesse required to actually play at a high rating dwarves that of nearly any other class.

Bottom line, you should have realized there was a problem when rogues were unpopular from the beginning, all the underlying problems are still there, most people who still play just play purely out of habit, and we are probably the least newly rolled class. Can you please do something?
Edited by Vapour on 6/22/2011 4:20 AM PDT
100 Troll Rogue
9055
06/22/2011 04:15 AMPosted by Wiredmana
Nobody plays Rogues anymore because their tier armor has sucked ass since Bloodfang.
Mages and T5 want a word with you.


our t5 rocked too.
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