Why are rogues the least played class?

85 Troll Priest
11790
Boring and CD dependent in pvp != fun.
Melee got trashed by new design. Rogues got trashed hard by new design. Rogues are the only melee class that can't respec into a different role.

Turn one of my specs into a tanking spec and I'd start playing my rogue again.

Or, yanno.

Fix rogues, and fix melee in general.
85 Goblin Warrior
2100
I want to know where this "Rogues are hard to level" nonsense comes from. I've had every class in this game to cap, with the exception of Mage and DK.

I've had 2 level 80 Rogues in Wotlk , I leveled both as Combat swords and found it easier than most other specs I've played. This was before Recup. No class or spec is a pain to level aside from maybe the healing specs, let alone a class with stealth to avoid crap and just get to quest objectives, and CD's to easily solo elite mobs that some other specs would need help killing. But anyhow, on topic.

I think the reason is what has been stated already, Rogues have changed the least of all classes in the lifespan of this game. I also think a collection of little annoyances and poor design like no AoE till Fan of Knives also contribute. Many of Rogues abilities are NOT interesting at all (Vendetta, Redirect etc) and I think many people are sick of being balanced around so many damned cooldowns.
85 Orc Shaman
4800
I've been playing my rogue for 6 years since the game has been released and I love him still. Switching to him for firelands raids.
90 Undead Rogue
13680
06/17/2011 04:38 PMPosted by Grachnist
I want to know where this "Rogues are hard to level" nonsense comes from. I've had every class in this game to cap, with the exception of Mage and DK.

Difficulty is relative. No class is hard to level. However, before Recup, Rogues had the most downtime of any class outside of pre-30-40 Mages.

It wasn't so much "difficult" to level a Rogue as much as it was "irritating and not fun," which is far worse.
Edited by Kanoi on 6/17/2011 5:18 PM PDT
85 Blood Elf Rogue
3725
This toon was my main back in BC. Did a lot of raiding. Had a blast being the glass cannon. Do it right, and you're a god of dps. Do it wrong, and you're dead.

Now, there are sooo many other classes and specs that do things just as well as a rogue, but can do other things too.

Warriors, DK's, Druids, Shammies, Pallies, etc, all bring more to the table with similar dps.

Rogues are in a poor spot.
90 Draenei Hunter
12880
06/17/2011 05:17 PMPosted by Kanoi
I want to know where this "Rogues are hard to level" nonsense comes from. I've had every class in this game to cap, with the exception of Mage and DK.

Difficulty is relative. No class is hard to level. However, before Recup, Rogues had the most downtime of any class outside of pre-30-40 Mages.

It wasn't so much "difficult" to level a Rogue as much as it was "irritating and not fun," which is far worse.
This. I have no idea why warlocks are so low in population (my lock is pretty seamless, and I have no down time as Destro at 82), but I can see why no one likes rogues. You push 2 buttons outside of boss fights (Mut/SS/Hemo, depending on spec, then Envenom/Evis if you manage to get combo points). I don't know how I managed to get my rogues into the 70s with how awful it is to play.
85 Dwarf Warlock
12215
Make sub a viable pve spec and I bet we would see a decent boost in rogue numbers. I'd play mine if sub was used outside of pvp. The other 2 specs have for the most part remained unchanged in playstyle since the beginning of the game.
Edited by Calignos on 6/17/2011 6:24 PM PDT
85 Goblin Warrior
2100
06/17/2011 05:17 PMPosted by Kanoi
I want to know where this "Rogues are hard to level" nonsense comes from. I've had every class in this game to cap, with the exception of Mage and DK.

Difficulty is relative. No class is hard to level. However, before Recup, Rogues had the most downtime of any class outside of pre-30-40 Mages.

It wasn't so much "difficult" to level a Rogue as much as it was "irritating and not fun," which is far worse.


I agree about the relativity part, but again scratch my head at the downtime part. Maybe my diconnect is I leveled as combat swords both times, and so I had the benefit of higher innate survivability, plus some small ability to actually damage more than one mob at a time.

I remember distinctly feeling that it was easier than my Hunter which I leveld as BM. Which prompts alot of people to say I am either an amazing Rogue or a terrible Hunter, but really, how can one be bad at BM. =/

Anyhow, I agree, irritating and unfun they end up being regardless of how they do or do not level.
90 Night Elf Warrior
2690
Well I don't think they're too hard to play in pvp. Every time i get killed randomly it's a rouge. In fact i find them a bit overpowered.
32 Human Priest
410
06/17/2011 02:26 PMPosted by Esks
Why play a rogue when there are 9 better classes?


:(
32 Human Priest
410
remember back in BC when we were fun to play?

those were the days.
32 Human Priest
410
Well I don't think they're too hard to play in pvp. Every time i get killed randomly it's a rouge. In fact i find them a bit overpowdered.


you left the "d" out in your troll post. unoriginal but still funny.
85 Human Warlock
Law
1480
rogues are not the least played class. plenty of classes can only do damage. rogues are mainly utilized for pvp, the same way they always have been. they are also the top melee dps in raids.
90 Blood Elf Rogue
4670
Cool down lengths are too long on many abilities defensive and offensive:

*CloS (Soon to be 2 minutes)
*Evasion 3 minutes
*Vanish 3 minutes
*AR 3 minutes
*Vendetta 2 minutes
etc

Death Knights are considered fun for example (in my opinion), because while they were modeled after rogue cool down design in WotLK beta, they have shorter cool down lengths. Look no further than the sprint change from 3 minutes to 1 minute as to how it has had a positive impact on the rogue class as a whole for leveling, PVE, and PVP overall.
Edited by Mafic on 6/17/2011 7:27 PM PDT
32 Human Priest
410
06/17/2011 07:14 PMPosted by Kevout
rogues are not the least played class. plenty of classes can only do damage. rogues are mainly utilized for pvp, the same way they always have been. they are also the top melee dps in raids.


rogues were also least played through most of wotlk and they've only RECENTLY been barely surpassed. and no, they are not even close to top melee dps.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9055
If you were to break down all the hybrids into specific roles (just for simplicity's sake divide all hybrids by the number of possible roles they can fulfill) than rogues aren't really doing so bad.

Obviously this approach isn't a catch all vacuum or anything as obviously a lot of hybrids play more than one role. But being as how at any given time a player is only fulfilling one role, and thus their "main" role, I'd say that rogues and pures in general are quite populated for their "main" (see: only) role.

And following this line of thought you can see the classes that perform the most roles are the most populated, generally speaking. 3 roles: Pallies + druids are the two most populated.

So honestly when it comes to this type of discussion its best to compare like against like and in the category of pures it's mages and hunters drastically outnumbering rogues and warlocks and rogues are unique in that they are the only melee. This leads me to believe that people just don't like to play the evil class (warlocks) and as of this point in time aren't interested in playing a pure melee class.

Yes there are other variables, such as lack of fresh ideas, class performance, and "style" that likely play a big hand in this, but I'd say it's fair to say that most of us agree that Cata hasn't been very melee friendly so far. On top of the fact that hunters and mages are top tier dps right now.

I think if we saw a more melee friendly encounter design approach and the flat out removal of bandit's guile in lieu of something not terrible, we would see a solid growth in the rogue numbers. Making sub a viable PvE spec would just be icing on the cake.
Edited by Shynn on 6/17/2011 7:45 PM PDT
85 Worgen Rogue
9445
far. On top of the fact that hunters and mages are top tier dps right now.I think if we saw a more melee friendly encounter design approach and the flat out removal of bandit's guile in lieu of something not terrible, we would see a solid growth in the rogue numbers. Making sub a viable PvE spec would just be icing on the cake.



why? if more melee friendly fights happen ull see a lot more wariors, a handfull more dks and palys, a few more druids and barely any more rogues, because all of those have more overall options and 3/4 of those will be better in terms of dps when t12 heroics roll around due to scaling (not sure where ferals will sit next patch dps wise)
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9055
06/17/2011 07:51 PMPosted by Thebackstab
far. On top of the fact that hunters and mages are top tier dps right now.I think if we saw a more melee friendly encounter design approach and the flat out removal of bandit's guile in lieu of something not terrible, we would see a solid growth in the rogue numbers. Making sub a viable PvE spec would just be icing on the cake.



why? if more melee friendly fights happen ull see a lot more wariors, a handfull more dks and palys, a few more druids and barely any more rogues, because all of those have more overall options and 3/4 of those will be better in terms of dps when t12 heroics roll around due to scaling (not sure where ferals will sit next patch dps wise)


Like I said.. you can't compare the total number of hybrids to the number of role spots available. Yes paladins are the most played class in the game, but that's because all 3 of our specs are very viable right now. That doesn't mean my raid has any that switch roles every other pull. We have a ret, 2 prots, and 2 holy. We bring 2 rogues. 2 > 1.

It's not going to take a lot of tweaking to make rogues more viable. No they're never going to outnumber a hybrid class in total numbers, but I would think that is a good thing. I would say there are about equal numbers of rets, dps dks/warriors, enhs, cats, and rogues and that's a good thing. The only "problem" is there are a lot more mages/hunters because mages/hunters have fewer problems than rogues, so you can't say its a hybrid vs pures problem.
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