TB 101 for the Horde

85 Troll Druid
3470
I'm going to get flamed, hated, ignored, etc. I don't mind. But let me point out a few things for my fellow Horde regarding TB.

1) Fight on the flags, or within the flag capture radius. This is especially true if you are melee and if a healer is present. If you run to the outer entrances away from the flags (and out of the flag capture or keep radius) you are just doing exactly what the other side wants. They will try to lure you out with scouts, or ranged DPS, etc. Don't fall for it! Stay near the flags and near your healers.

We're going to be doing AoE healing and instant HoTs as best we can on you, while madly trying to heal ourselves because everyone knows, kill the healer first, right? (except sometimes we forget that it seems)

2) TB is a circle-zerg when numbers are mostly even. If the majority of folks are calling rezzers to a specific fort, it's likely for a reason. Don't split up unnecessarily, and certainly don't fight on roads. Get to your defense points (that flag I mentioned) and hug it, love it, protect it!

3) Sometimes, TB is *not* even numbers. I don't care what anyone else says, I've seen battles where we are outnumbered, and not only from folks leaving the battle. If we have less than 10, assume the Alliance outnumber us. This means we must react sharper and quicker, and not fall for lures or tricks to get killed away from flags, and we have to expect large zergs in waves.

4) Do NOT start the battle if we are on defense at ICG. Forget ICG to start. Shore up WV and Slags (not everyone go to one only), let them have ICG, and defense the others. That will most likely start the circle zerg/defense cycle, but it's smarter than 3-5 of you dying at ICG to 10 of them.

5) Remember if they hold 2 bases, they cap the 3rd much quicker, so pay attention to rez calls, and try to give useful info in raid chat, like numbers, names of healers, etc. I'm pretty sure the Alliance is doing all of this too.

6) Sieges- If it's a pitched battle and we're hurting on numbers and reaction to the zergs, we might not get to take out attacking sieges. However, if we have numbers or position, and we can take out a siege, it's worthwhile IF the battle looks like it can be won in a short period. Long fights tend to favor the Horde, in some cases, because more people may join and equalize the numbers (if we started behind)

I'm sure others will have thoughts, or rebuttals, or just call me a noob or whatever. That's fine. If anything comes of this, maybe a few more folks will fight close to the flags, and from a healer's perspective, that's just great.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6645
I'm impassive on the subject, I gave up on TB a long time ago, however you are correct, fighting on the flags is a problem. Just wish there was a Horde only forum so we could discuss tactics without the blue's watching us. :P <3 you Alliance. Also <3 your pain.

-Lovingly, Ash, professional improviser.
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85 Undead Mage
7080
06/21/2011 11:56 AMPosted by Bloodydemize
to bad i havent done TB for atleast a month or 2 lol :P


Spoiler alert:

It's still terrible.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
18825
I'm impassive on the subject, I gave up on TB a long time ago, however you are correct, fighting on the flags is a problem. Just wish there was a Horde only forum so we could discuss tactics without the blue's watching us. :P <3 you Alliance. Also <3 your pain.

-Lovingly, Ash, professional improviser.


There is. It's called take the portal to TB.

/join General
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3620
06/21/2011 08:46 PMPosted by Crick
to bad i havent done TB for atleast a month or 2 lol :P


Spoiler alert:

It's still terrible.


Better than Wintergrasp.

20 stacks of Tenacity GO!
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6645

There is. It's called take the portal to TB.

/join General


That's... Not even remotely close to what I was implying. Nor would that work in any century.

A good thought, but trying to command people as it's happening SUCKS. "Well.. I WOULD go to Warden's Vigil.. But... There's this dude on the road I really wanna kill." Where if you discuss ahead of time and go over things, they'll be more ample prepared... If they listen. But usually things look better when input's added in. Which, of course, you can't do in general because everyone's too busy scurrying to actually win and not burn time.
Edited by Ashtherion on 6/22/2011 4:11 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3620

There is. It's called take the portal to TB.

/join General


That's... Not even remotely close to what I was implying. Nor would that work in any century.

A good thought, but trying to command people as it's happening SUCKS. "Well.. I WOULD go to Warden's Vigil.. But... There's this dude on the road I really wanna kill." Where if you discuss ahead of time and go over things, they'll be more ample prepared... If they listen. But usually things look better when input's added in. Which, of course, you can't do in general because everyone's too busy scurrying to actually win and not burn time.


Hey, those people playing Defense are just as important as offense.

And those people in the roads are.... There, I guess.
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90 Troll Hunter
11395
Dunno. I've been in some epic, mighty struggle-TBs ....and I have seen some of the most fail-soaked idiocy in TB as well. When the numbers are low...REALLY low...you can actually get away with ninja'ing a flag or two, if you're clever and they're stupid.

which happens.

....still, on this server, I'd say TB >>>>old WG, hands down. New WG is a riot, considering they haven't buffed up the vehicles to match the level 85s running around. A good PVP streak would be do TB, then jump to WG.
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90 Draenei Hunter
9035
Well dont feel bad alliance do the same thing as you guys. Each time a horde mob squad appears and flank us we go after it. Not saying doing so make us lose ground on said battle front but it happens. Word of advise if u give up and walk away what would u accomplish by that. I do not believe in giving up with out a true fight. If I have to, my blue ass will rush all ten of u just cause. Dont walk away from ur team we all look for a good fight here and there. Now in ref to TB vs WG lol man I can recall some damn good times in WG. I mean damn good times!! To ally and horde I say to hell with bs and just have fun!!!! Now that being said, time to go flatline a few of you hordies :)
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85 Undead Rogue
0
06/22/2011 12:36 PMPosted by Soneillon


Spoiler alert:

It's still terrible.


Better than Wintergrasp.

20 stacks of Tenacity GO!


The one 9v40 with 32 stacks of tenacity game we had was so much better than TB.
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85 Draenei Death Knight
1830
Just transferred here a few weeks back and I have to say TB is very balanced on this server as a whole. I try and hit just about every TB I can and so far I would say 90% of the time it's just a flip-flop where the defending team loses. This is a GREAT thing. Makes honor farming for us diecore pvp players much much better. I think I have only been in one successful defend in 2weeks. It was at 4am when its usually 5-6 vs 5-6, and it was when I got in with a healer and swapped to my blood spec for lulz.

No matter how you put it TB still sucks. Even after the patch a few months back, but its FAR FAR FAR better than uneven WG servers ever were.

~Tyra
Edited by Tyraganks on 7/3/2011 8:57 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
18825

There is. It's called take the portal to TB.

/join General


That's... Not even remotely close to what I was implying. Nor would that work in any century.

A good thought, but trying to command people as it's happening SUCKS. "Well.. I WOULD go to Warden's Vigil.. But... There's this dude on the road I really wanna kill." Where if you discuss ahead of time and go over things, they'll be more ample prepared... If they listen. But usually things look better when input's added in. Which, of course, you can't do in general because everyone's too busy scurrying to actually win and not burn time.


It still wouldn't matter. A vast majority of the people who play Alliance on this server *GASP!* have Horde toons also. So it would continue to be just as pointless. Let alone the fact that there are only a handful of people who do TB with any consistency, the rest of them are genuine Pugs who aren't in there to help win, they're in there for HKs and honor. We have a plethora of those on Blue-side, too. But there's enough of the die-hards like some of my fellow guildmates that they tend to be left on their own as fodder for the war machine, while we handle the tuff stuff. You guys don't have many guilds who do that, while we do, so it unfortunately puts you guys at a really tough disadvantage.

I never have trouble getting responses or getting information across in either /raid or in /1. So that's not a problem with the channel, it's a problem with the people in TB. So technically, yes, it does work "in this century". It's the fact you guys have a higher ratio of bads to people that can comprehend strategy, that makes it "not work".

Want to solve the problem of people fighting on the roads? Do what we do.
Let. Them. Die.

Don't run up and heal them.
Don't run up and save them.
Don't chase off their attackers.
Time spent in the GY because people are stupid, it's an excellent education tool. You guys should use it.

Then again, these are probably the same people like a certain Hunter I kept farming, whose name is related to the Sun, tagged at the end by an animal I kill repeatedly in TB for a pet, who kept running into ICG last night 1v9 people - and getting camped over and over again. Running in alone to a group of people, most of which are from the same guild and most of which are in at least 3pc Ruthless? Not a great idea.

All in all, TB is frustrating when you have nothing but people who don't like to listen. The few times I've actually seen any measure of good play from the opposing side (be it attacking or defending) is when I can tell people are talking to one another, and people are listening.
Edited by Dominitari on 7/15/2011 10:41 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
3710


That's... Not even remotely close to what I was implying. Nor would that work in any century.

A good thought, but trying to command people as it's happening SUCKS. "Well.. I WOULD go to Warden's Vigil.. But... There's this dude on the road I really wanna kill." Where if you discuss ahead of time and go over things, they'll be more ample prepared... If they listen. But usually things look better when input's added in. Which, of course, you can't do in general because everyone's too busy scurrying to actually win and not burn time.


It still wouldn't matter. A vast majority of the people who play Alliance on this server *GASP!* have Horde toons also. So it would continue to be just as pointless. Let alone the fact that there are only a handful of people who do TB with any consistency, the rest of them are genuine Pugs who aren't in there to help win, they're in there for HKs and honor. We have a plethora of those on Blue-side, too. But there's enough of the die-hards like some of my fellow guildmates that they tend to be left on their own as fodder for the war machine, while we handle the tuff stuff. You guys don't have many guilds who do that, while we do, so it unfortunately puts you guys at a really tough disadvantage.

I never have trouble getting responses or getting information across in either /raid or in /1. So that's not a problem with the channel, it's a problem with the people in TB. So technically, yes, it does work "in this century". It's the fact you guys have a higher ratio of bads to people that can comprehend strategy, that makes it "not work".

Want to solve the problem of people fighting on the roads? Do what we do.
Let. Them. Die.

Don't run up and heal them.
Don't run up and save them.
Don't chase off their attackers.
Time spent in the GY because people are stupid, it's an excellent education tool. You guys should use it.

Then again, these are probably the same people like a certain Hunter I kept farming, whose name is related to the Sun, tagged at the end by an animal I kill repeatedly in TB for a pet, who kept running into ICG last night 1v9 people - and getting camped over and over again. Running in alone to a group of people, most of which are from the same guild and most of which are in at least 3pc Ruthless? Not a great idea.

All in all, TB is frustrating when you have nothing but people who don't like to listen. The few times I've actually seen any measure of good play from the opposing side (be it attacking or defending) is when I can tell people are talking to one another, and people are listening.


This RP alt has more PvP achievements than you do, I don't know where this immense ego has come from all of a sudden.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
18825


This RP alt has more PvP achievements than you do, I don't know where this immense ego has come from all of a sudden.


I'm going to keep this nice, because I'm generally a nice person, and like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I don't speak for everyone in my guild. While some things I said may have been misunderstood, and rightly so, I said -

But there's enough of the die-hards like some of my fellow guildmates that they tend to be left on their own as fodder for the war machine, while we handle the tuff stuff.


Underlined to make a point. Some, as in not all. The vast majority of my guildmates do PvE content, some aren't even interested in PvP. There are a handful of those who do, and they're pretty much regulars in TB. However - when I said "we handle the tuff stuff", I meant the die-hard PvP'ers, not only those from my guild. It was early for me (as I'm on night shifts this week), and I had literally just gotten up - my fault for not re-reading to make sure I was more clear. There's more than a handful of times that they're at a completely different base, and I'm on my own at ICG with some other really good PvP'ers from guilds like Eye Candy, Company of Wolves, The Hellfire Angels, etc.. It encompasses everyone on this side of the server who does TB almost every time it comes up. I apologize profusely if there was any confusion - I'm not so retarded as to sit here and say that anyone single-handedly wins TB, because that's ludicrous and quite false.

As for you, Blackfang.
This char leveled 1-72 on Haomarush / Maelstrom. Both of which are PvP servers. I moved him shortly before Wrath to Dawnbringer (PvE Normal), and didn't do any major PvP (including Arenas, because I dislike them) all through Wrath, and largely into the first part of Cata. I just recently got back into it.

You'd do well to not assume that just because someone doesn't do it often, they don't have history with it, and they haven't done it in the past :). Let alone that most of my PvP history existed before Achievements were put into place. And my ego isn't "immense", thank you. I'd like to think there are a vast number of people on this server who have larger ones than I do. Ashtherion and I have something of a history, so banter between us tends to be a bit bristled compared to most. It's likewise with some of The Savage Frontier members, simply because of some not necessarily bad, but not necessarily good blood between myself and them concerning some Roleplay events, etc. in the past.

Edit: If I offended anyone, please believe it wasn't my intention. Tone is hard to convey in text, unfortunately, and I know sometimes I come off a bit harsher than I intend to.

In any TB, just like in any BG, you're going to have people who don't like to work with others, and run off to do their own thing (i.e. fighting on roads, then yelling about not getting heals, etc). Working as a team is the biggest thing any side can do. It's a lot easier to assault bases with 6-10 people who understand their jobs and are looking out for one another, than it is to run in with one or two people and a group who isn't concerned for anyone but themselves.

Over the last couple of weeks, it seems like more and more people are understanding that, and I've seen some really, really close TB matches. People are getting it, it just takes time. You guys will get there, just keep doing what you're doing, and keeping the communication lines open.
Edited by Dominitari on 7/15/2011 9:00 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Warrior
13755
I think you gone and hurt someone's feelings Dom. For shame, for shame.

The Horde has working strategy, but it appears time and time again they believe they still have 20 stacks of tenacity to back them up. Sorry to say, this is not the case. Sorry to say, that Arms Warrior and two healers will continue to hold ICG as you run in one at a time to get Rick Rolled.

Talk when you queue, call your Inc's, and work together. The whole "I is 2 l33t 4 u" generally means you are pretty much useless to the attack effort. Even Sin eats the dirt if he tries to go in against five Horde unelss some cursed Shaman is right behind him.

Coordination and teamwork for the win boys.
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For everything else, there's Peekabuu™
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90 Draenei Warrior
13755
Lulz
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90 Worgen Druid
10575
Blackfang, you can flame Dom all you like. Fact of the matter is she is referring to guildies like me, Peekabuu, Tanden, Sugarcube.

We always stay together, we take nodes that are vastly outnumbered, and we only fight in the road if it serves a strategic purpose.

I haven't been in a losing TB in a while, but usually when I queue I'm queueing with my entire guild.
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90 Worgen Druid
10575
07/15/2011 11:50 PMPosted by Ginness
For everything else, there's Peekabuu™


OH AND THIS.
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