Why Block Capping is Bad

90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
06/23/2011 03:53 PMPosted by Xayton
I like where this is going.

Giggity.

What have I done.
85 Human Paladin
6435
Man...I TOTALLY derailed this thread.
90 Goblin Warrior
9455
06/23/2011 04:01 PMPosted by Xayton
Man...I TOTALLY derailed this thread.


If it catches on you could have an item named after you as well. Blizzard has used famous characters in item names before.

Think about it, a 2-handed mace named Xayton's Crushing Blow or Xayton's Crusher. A fist weapon named the Punch of Xayton.

Back on topic. I'm for the redesign of both the paladin mastery and the DKs mastery. I don't mind the DKs active mitigation model when tanking. However, I would prefer that the "active" model be PROactive instead of REactive. DKs should be able to smooth incoming damage, not recover from it. The current model causes scaling issues in 5-mans to heroic modes. OP to possible 2-shotted.

And obviously paladin 100% CTC needs to be looked at so Paladins don't look at T13 and go..."so what".
Edited by Kaosklash on 6/23/2011 4:12 PM PDT
90 Worgen Hunter
19840
Glancing through an Atramedes log from two weeks back, a DK app tank was taking 70k hits for the most part. So it's definately higher than Blizzard says but not quite as high as is portrayed.

I do see a couple hits in the upper 80k's but they may be outliers and I dont know why they're happening. It's possible Scarlet Fever dropped off, which makes things even more fun!


From one of your Atramedes kills and with a warrior tanking.

[21:08:06.687] Atramedes Modulation Frayed 48998 (R: 12249)
[21:08:08.361] Atramedes hits Frayed 104261
[21:08:10.259] Atramedes hits Frayed 10807 (O: 65369)


fury warrior tank
48 Gnome Priest
360
06/23/2011 04:01 PMPosted by Xayton
Man...I TOTALLY derailed this thread.


This thread has gone in so many different directions they should turn it into an amusement park ride.

06/23/2011 04:09 PMPosted by Kaosklash
And obviously paladin 100% CTC needs to be looked at so Paladins don't look at T13 and go..."so what".


Even if 100% CTC is deemed okay (I'm not saying that) having a mastery cap that's closer to a hit cap rather than a haste break point isn't good either. We're supposed to want mastery.
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
Mastery: Blood Shield
Each time you take physical damage, you absorb a portion equal to 10%* of the damage you have taken over the preceeding 5 sec. Each point of mastery increases the amount absorbed by an additional 1.25%.

* Modified by Improved Death Strike.

Yes, this is effectively block capping for a DK. But the block value is so much lower and this could be said to be a counterbalance to their low AC. Muck around with the percentages to suit.

It just isnt fun being the spike tank.
Edited by Charsi on 6/23/2011 4:28 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Druid
5025


I think the point is to make Death Knight mastery give CTC, like call it something like 'Bone Shield' and just say "When you're in combat you're circled by bones, and have an X% chance to block x% damage off of any melee hit" or some such. Preferably with better language.


Yes.

....I think Dry had too much coffee. Didn't mean to get ya all riled Dry, was just a thought from a past thread I had read. ;p


Didn't mean to sound riled. I just figured adding more stats that only one class could use would, in fact, be making something that's already complex-ily complex just for the sake of complex-ily making something complex yet more complex-ily complex. You know? That's just what it sounded like you were trying to say. :P
85 Night Elf Druid
5025


Back on topic. I'm for the redesign of both the paladin mastery and the DKs mastery. I don't mind the DKs active mitigation model when tanking. However, I would prefer that the "active" model be PROactive instead of REactive. DKs should be able to smooth incoming damage, not recover from it.


I agree with what you're trying to say, but not how you would like to implement it.

Only because I don't think it would be as easy as that to fix anything.

I would still suggest changing the mastery. Blood Shield taking the heal and applying that amount (or modified to be lower for balance) and allocating it to that amount of physical damage reduction for ~10 seconds. It would, effectively, be block, but instead of RNG block the Death Knight would be forced to control it. The only RNG would be how much damage is actually "blocked" due to the heal not always being the same amount because of incoming boss damage. Maybe I'm doing exactly what I accused someone else of doing. Something about having six different "complex"es in the same sentence.
84 Night Elf Druid
5770
06/23/2011 03:22 PMPosted by Xayton
The point is, it's the "new" Crushing Blow. Quit arguing semantics. You know what people are saying, you're not a moron.


I understand what you are saying, but you need to stop calling it crushing blows, because it's not.

It's like calling block avoidance. Sure we know what you are talking about, but that doesn't make it the correct term.


It's like lolwell radiance, etc..

No one's come up with a catchy sarcastic phrase yet, and crushing blows are for all intents and purposes gone, so why not reuse it. It's really not worth this many posts. >.>
85 Tauren Druid
3485
I like where this is going.


Giggity.

What have I done.

I think the Xayton Punch's will be flying around everywhere if mastery levels escalate enough by the end of the expansion without changes somewhere.

Given a ridiculous amount of mastery, the standard could become 40% damage taken (by warriors) and block capped pallys would feel the wrath of a Xayton punch.
Edited by Meganome on 6/23/2011 6:11 PM PDT
85 Human Paladin
6435
I love where this is going.
75 Troll Druid
670
To the Ground! becomes Xayton's Punch! :O
90 Blood Elf Paladin
5925


Yes.

....I think Dry had too much coffee. Didn't mean to get ya all riled Dry, was just a thought from a past thread I had read. ;p


Didn't mean to sound riled. I just figured adding more stats that only one class could use would, in fact, be making something that's already complex-ily complex just for the sake of complex-ily making something complex yet more complex-ily complex. You know? That's just what it sounded like you were trying to say. :P


Its all good. Yeah, no more stacking complexity....and I actually liked your counter suggestion.
90 Human Paladin
13665
06/23/2011 06:08 PMPosted by Tyrazsun


I understand what you are saying, but you need to stop calling it crushing blows, because it's not.

It's like calling block avoidance. Sure we know what you are talking about, but that doesn't make it the correct term.


It's like lolwell radiance, etc..

No one's come up with a catchy sarcastic phrase yet, and crushing blows are for all intents and purposes gone, so why not reuse it. It's really not worth this many posts. >.>


I wasn't aware lolwells had a radiance debuff.

They are admittedly hard to kill in PvP if you're a paladin.
85 Human Warlock
8270
Naw Xayton punch would be the new healer drink.

Makes female healers get drunk and their clothes fa.....
Edited by Vaydra on 6/23/2011 9:43 PM PDT
85 Human Paladin
6435
Naw Xayton punch would be the new healer drink.

Makes female healers get drunk and their clothes fa.....


I don't care what it is, I like it.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6235
06/23/2011 08:56 PMPosted by Dekkar
I wasn't aware lolwells had a radiance debuff.

Assuming this isn't sarcasm, he's talking about Sunwell Radiance, as in the last tier of TBC raiding, not Lightwell the Priest talent, although that one is called lolwell a lot more often.
90 Night Elf Druid
17755
This is going back a lot of pages but I haven't had internet so whatev.

@Charsi: The main reason for changing Sinestra Orb mechanics seemed to be 10-man where having both healers Orbed meant death. It was rough for 25-man too, but on 10-man it was just insane.
85 Night Elf Death Knight
14080
06/20/2011 05:05 PMPosted by Zarko
because deathknights

Zarko should make some real life gold selling shirts with this on it.

Honestly I don't think my healers' mana expenditure will actually increase that much.

1. Any time I get a minimum heal due to an avoidance streak, absorbs, or interruptions in damage, my ds heal + shield is roughly the same in either setup.

2. If spike damage takes me to 40% health instead of 30% health, then it is somewhat less likely to send healers into panic mode and use low efficiency heals.

For any fight that matters - you can replace that by "where mana matters" - any other tank would be a superior option, because you'd be a mana sponge. Your only advantage would be surviving a hit they would never take in the first place.

Blocking is too effective.

On top of that, for a warrior to reach a high level of mitigation all he needs to know is that mastery is the king and gear accordingly. A DK needs to pull 9 DS per minute while juggling diseases and CDs that clash with that goal, like DRW that indirectly messes with Runic Empowerment by costing 2 Rune Strikes and Bone Shield that requires half of a DS.

Tl;dr: a warrior that knows how to read can perform better than a really good DK.
Edited by Morrigan on 6/24/2011 2:11 AM PDT
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