Why Block Capping is Bad

85 Undead Death Knight
5765
We should make a thread explaining why having explain why block capping is bad is bad.
100 Human Paladin
18500
Pretty much agree with Ahti's post, and in my experience if an unblocked hit gets through on even, say, Heroic V+T, you do notice it; on the few pulls of Heroic Cho'gall we did it was even more problematic.
06/22/2011 03:13 PMPosted by Corpseicle
We should make a thread explaining why having explain why block capping is bad is bad.
Xzibit would like to have a word with you about copyright infringement...
90 Tauren Death Knight
11855
I'm an engineer. I like spreadsheets. I like modeling complex things.

At a fundamental level, it's completely bizarre to me that Blood Shield is a function of DTPS. I mean, who designs a class whose primary buff is a linear function of something you're supposed to avoid? Could they not anticipate that things would get completely screwy as gear got better?

Would you guys ever consider basing BS on boss damage output rather than Damage sustained? Even if the 20% factor were reduced for balance purposes, it would actually MAKE SENSE.
Edited by Gristlejack on 6/22/2011 3:30 PM PDT
90 Human Death Knight
10870
Nothing against the CM communicating the information to us, but I honestly can't believe the responses I'm reading.

For realsies?

Maybe it's a good thing, he brings in softball "This is how we think it works" points for people to knock down so he can take the proof back where it'll make a difference. I would say the win condition for this thread would be that the flaws in the system can be clearly laid out and proven, both with numbers and looking at how different tank mechanics interact with those numbers, then that information is brought back to the dev team so they can better understand what does and doesn't need adjustment and where things might end up at.
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
I seriously just laughed at the Blizzard post.

And then I laughed harder at the page full of contradictory log evidence.

You guys are awesome, I love you all.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6235
I seriously just laughed at the Blizzard post.

And then I laughed harder at the page full of contradictory log evidence.

You guys are awesome, I love you all.

"This was very well put, and leaves me with little more to say."
90 Orc Death Knight
10920
06/22/2011 01:19 PMPosted by Kaivax
Cataclysm bosses aren't designed to work that way


Please go look at some heroic Atramades logs before posting something like this.
85 Night Elf Death Knight
14080
Someone please go find one of those "you don't know more than the developers" posts we see around here all the time.

Even though this has little to do with knowing or not. They do know but, as always, they're playing dead while trying to figure a solution.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
13465
I'm late to what is rapidly turning into an epic thread, but there's one minor point worth bringing up that I haven't seen anyone explicitly make yet here.

When dk TTL drops below the frequency they can DS (realistically in the neighborhood of 7 seconds) then their active mitigation model starts going away, because they simply can't ds enough. This has been said.

What hasn't been pointed out in this thread is that that sort of compression also forces healers to heal the dk "tighter", simply to keep him alive. This allows less healing slack for DS to work with, pushing up it's over heal, cutting the value of Blood Shield, and the more TTL drops, the worse it gets, making DKs increasingly disadvantaged for the fights.

While the Firelands fights I've looked at closely so far haven't been big on tank damage, I'm sure that'll change with hard modes. Sure, heroic Rag will do a lot of magic damage which is a relative DK advantage, but you KNOW he's going to hammer the tank, and the farther under 7 seconds you get, the more compression you get and thevworse DKs are going to be.
90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
06/22/2011 04:20 PMPosted by Wrathblood
cutting the value of Blood Shield


Overheal doesn't affect the size of Blood Shield. It does, however, affect our total mitigation.
90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Cho doesn't hit for 80k without getting lots of Worship stacks, and Sinestra hits for 80-90k in a phase where your entire raid (including healers) has infinite mana and a 100% haste buff (excepting the final 30 or so seconds of burn when Essence runs out), which is a mechanic of the fight and has the damage based around that (she does 60% of damage in p1 where you don't have the buff).

Context is important guys >.>
Edited by Slashlove on 6/22/2011 4:37 PM PDT
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
13370
Cho doesn't hit for 80k without getting lots of Worship stacks, and Sinestra hits for 80-90k in a phase where your entire raid (including healers) has infinite mana and a 100% haste buff (excepting the final 30 or so seconds of burn when Essence runs out), which is a mechanic of the fight and has the damage based around that (she does 60% of damage in p1 where you don't have the buff).

Context is important guys >.>

True.

Though from what I've seen, most heroic bosses hit within the 4 shot range at all times and can push up to the 3 shot range. Would you agree with that?
85 Gnome Death Knight
3900
Cho doesn't hit for 80k without getting lots of Worship stacks, and Sinestra hits for 80-90k in a phase where your entire raid (including healers) has infinite mana and a 100% haste buff (excepting the final 30 or so seconds of burn when Essence runs out), which is a mechanic of the fight and has the damage based around that (she does 60% of damage in p1 where you don't have the buff).

Context is important guys >.>


how about h: magmaw. i have a screen of it hitting me for 2 consecutive 110k non-crit (i had dancing runic weapon up, after 2x bone shield & icebound fortitude used).

base avoid + DRW = over 50% avoidance - still 2 shotted.
85 Tauren Paladin
13215
06/22/2011 04:44 PMPosted by Firestyle
The entire DK tanking model is predicated on taking more damage


Give DKs the wotlk version of ardent defender. This entire thread goes away.


And 50 entirely new threads are created in objection to that change.

Great idea.
85 Tauren Paladin
13215
Cho doesn't hit for 80k without getting lots of Worship stacks, and Sinestra hits for 80-90k in a phase where your entire raid (including healers) has infinite mana and a 100% haste buff (excepting the final 30 or so seconds of burn when Essence runs out), which is a mechanic of the fight and has the damage based around that (she does 60% of damage in p1 where you don't have the buff).

Context is important guys >.>


how about h: magmaw. i have a screen of it hitting me for 2 consecutive 110k non-crit (i had dancing runic weapon up, after 2x bone shield & icebound fortitude used).

base avoid + DRW = over 50% avoidance - still 2 shotted.


http://www.wowhead.com/spell=78199
66 Tauren Hunter
650
Cho doesn't hit for 80k without getting lots of Worship stacks, and Sinestra hits for 80-90k in a phase where your entire raid (including healers) has infinite mana and a 100% haste buff (excepting the final 30 or so seconds of burn when Essence runs out), which is a mechanic of the fight and has the damage based around that (she does 60% of damage in p1 where you don't have the buff).

Context is important guys >.>


I'm not the best with WoL but in the log linked earlier

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8m4k18cxai6o2cw5/xe/?s=4118&e=4538&x=sourcename%3D%22Cho%27gall%22+and+school%3D1

I don't see Twisted Devotion on the boss during [21:09:14.242] Cho'gall hits Riggnaros 71957 (A: 19081)

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
Edited by Zoológy on 6/22/2011 4:58 PM PDT
90 Human Warrior
13005
how about h: magmaw. i have a screen of it hitting me for 2 consecutive 110k non-crit (i had dancing runic weapon up, after 2x bone shield & icebound fortitude used).

base avoid + DRW = over 50% avoidance - still 2 shotted.

Doesn't Magmaw have a 5-second swing timer, though?
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